S2 Exige - N/A - ECU tuning - where ?

[BigD]

I have done enough mapping with Craig on our Honda's to know what is involved in changing the VTEC to a lower setting. I have also been running Emeralds and K-Pros for 15 years, so do know a little about the subject from mapping them myself, to taking them down to Ricki, Dave Walker, TDI, and Scuffers.

This has nothing to do with re-mapping an ECU for extra power and torque, it is simply changing a figure from 6250 to 5750 which they have been doing for seven years now so have more than covered their development costs.

There is a hell of a difference between mapping a car properly and sticking a generic map in for your car which will be the same one as in the same model car sitting next to you. When you buy an Emerald ECU from Dave Walker there will be numerous maps included to try and match your car as close as possible, but to get it done properly you take your car to him and he will map it to its optimum on the RR, which is what you are paying for, not the few minutes that it takes to upload the base map.

tut

I wasn't questioning your experience and I think we are saying the same thing (I just didn't explain myself properly). I was more referring to the bespoke maps and the time involved which is probably why so few do it.

One tuner used to charge £550 for an evo map which was exactly the same map for every car he did. This is why I started doing my own.

[tut]

"One tuner used to charge £550 for an evo map which was exactly the same map for every car he did. This is why I started doing my own. "

Yes, same point Dan, charging those prices and putting a generic map in. Mind you, nice little business if you can get the customers, as a generic map will work on a standard car and the customer would probably be happy with the result and post good reviews leading to more business.

tut

[campbell]

MEMS - the tamper proof ECU [THUMBS UP SIGN]

[a4drk]

Where's Dave walker based ?

I'm a believer in getting it done on the rolling road
Ecotune in Hillington done my old 335d. They adjusted the torque curved and squeezed another 15 lb ft out it to 517 !

Too many people out there with laptops - " yes, that your car now got and extra 75bhp". ......... Awe right... Prove it.
People just want to hear numbers..... Wee bit like back in the 80's when you asked someone how many watts their stereo had!

David

[tut]

http://www.emeraldm3d.com/about-us

Just a few miles from Lotus, Hethel.

tut

[steve_weegie]

Yep Donald, I agree that £160 for a cam change isn't too bad. Let's not forget that this is a professional service and the cables alone to hook the car up to the laptop run into the thousands. You pay for having someone at the other end of the phone when a flash goes wrong! Even 300 quid or so is reasonable I think for a generic stage 1 map, but the real costs and skill is then mapping past the standard hardware and onto cars with bespoke hardware....

I genuinely wouldn't care to count the hours spent learning first to map the Saab, then the Audi and now the bike... Probably in the same leage as not wanting to count the running costs for the RS6 lol. The Audi was a different level of beast though in terms of mapping, easily taking hundreds of hours to learn, and dropping down to assembler level to reverse engineer the Bosch code a few times... Goes like utter stink now though and drives the way "I" want it to

[steve_weegie]

I have done enough mapping with Craig on our Honda's to know what is involved in changing the VTEC to a lower setting. I have also been running Emeralds and K-Pros for 15 years, so do know a little about the subject from mapping them myself, to taking them down to Ricki, Dave Walker, TDI, and Scuffers.

True indeed Tut, but bear in mind the K-Pro and Emerald are specificly designed to be user tunable. The Lotus ECU is specificly designed not to be, requiring skills not in the public domain even to read the current map on the car. Then you've got to figure out what section of the code performs the vtec cam switch over, then change it to the value you'd like. Now, as you've changed the code you will have a number of checksum areas that require correction, all again lotus specific and not in the public domain.... Finally you upload the map to the car, hoping the write does not go wrong, turning the ECU into an expensive brick.

Make no mistake, there can be a lot of work to change something as simple as a cam switchover point and a lot can go wrong.

Even putting a generic stage 1 map on a new VAG ECU requires some serious skill - these have a form of tuner protection, where the new code must be correctly signed by VAG to be accepted over an OBD2 port flash.... Now you have to physically open the ECU and connect directly to the hardware debugger, loading custom code to bypass the flash signature check. This really is complicated stuff, for somthing as simple as a generic stage 1 map! Again, the tools here run into thousands of pounds, unless you play chinaclone roulette with reverse engineered hardware and software and no backup support when working on that £700 ecu

[tut]

Would not a better solution be to buy an Emerald Steve, used ones go for £500 and would have a suitable map installed for the Toyota engine, and then you could work on it yourself and get an even better result by putting it on a RR?

tut

[steve_weegie]

Dunno Tut, I guess it would come down to the individual car and the owners long term plans for it. I'd guess the bulk of the Toyota engined cars will be getting just basic mods which a cam change or stage 1 map would be fine for, or else perhaps receiving a packaged offering from someone like Komotec, who clearly have the in-house knowledge to supply modified Lotus ECU's.

If the owner was doing a one-off build, like a turbo conversion with big injectors though, then that's where the emerald would come into it's own. I know of no freely available software that can perform the checksum correction on the Lotus ECU's, although such software does exist (big £££'s)... Would be a big ask to get into tuning these directly I think, where the emerald is built for it. Sure there would be the initial cost, plus grafting it into the loom and the mapping, but might be a better choice long term.

I always wondered if there was a market for someone to get really clued up on custom mapping the T4 / T6 / K4 series of ECU's.... And the VX / Europa....

Cheers,

Steve

[a4drk]

I spoke with Jim @ 2bular.
I need a new cat, so buying a sports cat from him.
He told me to get the manifold - this alone can give 15bhp.
He said, 2bular manifold, sports cat & back box - TRD air filter & a "Back on Track" Remap - he reckons 190bhp at the wheels. (which is about 225bhp)

[j2 lot]

Supply and demand
To,do it properly you need knowledge , appropriate kit, some insurance or protection if it doesn't work and causes damage and in most cases enough to put a roof over your head and /or cover garage overheads.
If there wasn't a market no one would do it but there is so people charge what the market can bear. A knowledgeable amateur with a generous steak can destroy the market with freebies or cheap prices but you won't have the protection if it turns out their knowledge is lacking and you end up with a bag of spanners

[a4drk]

I bought the Larini Sports cat & got it fitted during the week.
Sounds really good.
200 Cells Per Square Inch instead of the Stock 600
according to the website = 7bhp extra and 12lb ft torque

David

[tut]

Scenario. A standard factory BMW 335D goes into a reputable company for a remap. It has the same map as the other tens of thousands of 335D's that left the showroom when it goes in. It has a remap uploaded to give an extra 40hp and 80ft/lb of Tq. So has every other 335D that comes in. It takes a few minutes via the OBD2. No R/R is involved

What am I missing? And don't tell me the development work involved, that has been covered hundreds of time over. And what map are all the other Companies putting in, either a near identical one or the whole process would be a waste of time.

tut

[a4drk]

I spoke to Hanger 111 there.
Just the cam change to 5750 rpm is £160 + vat (& postage)
or
they do a GT spec
recommended if you have an induction and exhaust.
takes it to just over 200bhp
cost is £322 + vat (& postage)

i'll probably go with the 2nd option - & do it over the winter

David

I contacted Back on Track Motorsport in Guilford - they are £495 + VAT for the same as Hanger111's £322 service

[a4drk]

I spoke to Craig today at mmc
He advised me just to do the cam change - not to go for the remap with extra power - he reckons it could cause long term damage / problems