Lambo Huracan Crash

Anything goes in here.....
User avatar
alicrozier
Posts: 4390
Joined: Thu Sep 01, 2005 12:58 pm
Location: Aberdeen

Re: Lambo Huracan Crash

Post by alicrozier » Thu Jan 22, 2015 3:45 pm

gambler wrote:
mckeann wrote:
Robin, I guess we were just to gentle and delicate to mash the brake pedal like Andy, Scotty and Scott. Animals the lot of them
:damnfunny

In the Atom, I never needed to actually lock up the fronts but you did have to give the brake pedal a good stab or it would just make things worse. In a 4WD car it was more of a gentle press on the pedal to shift a bit more weight to the front of the car mid corner to combat understeer. It also helps to ramp up the diffs.....whatever that means!
Yep far too brutal for the more cultured...

LFB useful to slow a Loti in the corner without the without the weight transfer and hence added rotation that a lift would bring.
All characters appearing in this post are fictitious. Any resemblance to real persons, living or dead, is purely coincidental.
Any references to laptimes, speed or driving on the public highway are purely for dramatic effect.

User avatar
Lazydonkey
Posts: 5139
Joined: Sun Aug 07, 2005 6:24 pm
Location: Glasgow
Contact:

Re: Lambo Huracan Crash

Post by Lazydonkey » Thu Jan 22, 2015 3:52 pm

mckeann wrote:So see, I must be smooth and gentle.
You've never been smooth or gentle with me. Despite my repeated pleading.
Focus ST estate, i3s and more pushbikes than strictly necessary.

....did i ever tell you about the Evora and VX220 i used to own?

User avatar
steve_weegie
Posts: 3248
Joined: Tue Jun 28, 2005 12:40 am
Location: Nessieland

Re: Lambo Huracan Crash

Post by steve_weegie » Thu Jan 22, 2015 4:54 pm

Lazydonkey wrote:
mckeann wrote:So see, I must be smooth and gentle.
You've never been smooth or gentle with me. Despite my repeated pleading.
Image

:shock:
Arriving broadside, in a cloud of smoke......

User avatar
BigD
Posts: 3209
Joined: Wed Aug 31, 2005 10:02 pm
Location: Falkirk

Re: Lambo Huracan Crash

Post by BigD » Thu Jan 22, 2015 5:39 pm

alicrozier wrote:
gambler wrote:
mckeann wrote:
Robin, I guess we were just to gentle and delicate to mash the brake pedal like Andy, Scotty and Scott. Animals the lot of them
:damnfunny

In the Atom, I never needed to actually lock up the fronts but you did have to give the brake pedal a good stab or it would just make things worse. In a 4WD car it was more of a gentle press on the pedal to shift a bit more weight to the front of the car mid corner to combat understeer. It also helps to ramp up the diffs.....whatever that means!
Yep far too brutal for the more cultured...

LFB useful to slow a Loti in the corner without the without the weight transfer and hence added rotation that a lift would bring.
Yep and I think that's exactly what Mark Higgins was doing, using the brakes to kill a bit of speed without lifting off and unsettling the car. :thumbsup

User avatar
Mikie711
Posts: 4344
Joined: Mon Sep 10, 2007 11:21 pm
Location: Aberdeenshire.
Contact:

Re: Lambo Huracan Crash

Post by Mikie711 » Thu Jan 22, 2015 6:04 pm

steve_weegie wrote:
Lazydonkey wrote:
mckeann wrote:So see, I must be smooth and gentle.
You've never been smooth or gentle with me. Despite my repeated pleading.
Image

:shock:
Steve, I am just curious about what you were looking for when you found that get up :shock:
Elise S2 260
BMW M2 Comp
RRS HST
BMW R1300GS

User avatar
steve_weegie
Posts: 3248
Joined: Tue Jun 28, 2005 12:40 am
Location: Nessieland

Re: Lambo Huracan Crash

Post by steve_weegie » Thu Jan 22, 2015 6:08 pm

Mikie711 wrote: Steve, I am just curious about what you were looking for when you found that get up :shock:
Just testing the work firewall, Mike ;)
Arriving broadside, in a cloud of smoke......

User avatar
rossybee
Posts: 11093
Joined: Tue Mar 15, 2005 9:13 pm
Location: Dundee

Re: Lambo Huracan Crash

Post by rossybee » Thu Jan 22, 2015 6:14 pm

steve_weegie wrote:
Mikie711 wrote: Steve, I am just curious about what you were looking for when you found that get up :shock:
Just testing the work firewall, Mike ;)
I assumed that *was* you Steve...
Ross
---------
1972 Alfaholics Giulia Super
2000 Elise S1 Sport 160
2004 Bentley Conti GT
2017 Schkoda Yeti
2x Hairy GRs (not Toyota)

Now browsing the tech pages :mrgreen:

:cheers

User avatar
robin
Jedi Master
Posts: 10546
Joined: Mon Mar 27, 2006 1:39 pm

Re: Lambo Huracan Crash

Post by robin » Thu Jan 22, 2015 8:02 pm

There are two distinct techniques (neither of which I have ever used successfully when it mattered :-)):

* Locking the front wheels in a "handbrake turn" stylee. This is "required" when you reach the end of the rack and the car is still rotating. By keeping some throttle in you prevent the rears from locking. The fronts lock and lose grip (about half their grip) and the momentum of the car pulls the front back into line (albeit you move sideways on the track by a car's length or so). This pretty much has to be done with the left foot and you would press the pedal as hard as you can whilst keeping enough throttle in to overwhelm the rear brakes.

* Transferring extra weight to the front wheels to increase rotation when the car is understeering. This could be done in many situations and not always with the left foot. You would want to do this without locking the fronts, so more controlled application of the brakes. I suppose you may be on the throttle at the same time if powering out of a corner and looking like running wide - not really sure - I've only ever attempted to use it on turn in (and spun ;-)).

Cheers,
Robin
I is in your loomz nibblin ur wirez
#bemoretut

User avatar
mckeann
Posts: 5370
Joined: Thu Mar 10, 2005 9:20 am
Location: Bo'ness

Re: Lambo Huracan Crash

Post by mckeann » Thu Jan 22, 2015 8:46 pm

Haha. I remember :shock:

User avatar
alicrozier
Posts: 4390
Joined: Thu Sep 01, 2005 12:58 pm
Location: Aberdeen

Re: Lambo Huracan Crash

Post by alicrozier » Fri Jan 23, 2015 12:20 pm

robin wrote:There are two distinct techniques (neither of which I have ever used successfully when it mattered :-)):

* Locking the front wheels in a "handbrake turn" stylee. This is "required" when you reach the end of the rack and the car is still rotating. By keeping some throttle in you prevent the rears from locking. The fronts lock and lose grip (about half their grip) and the momentum of the car pulls the front back into line (albeit you move sideways on the track by a car's length or so). This pretty much has to be done with the left foot and you would press the pedal as hard as you can whilst keeping enough throttle in to overwhelm the rear brakes.

* Transferring extra weight to the front wheels to increase rotation when the car is understeering. This could be done in many situations and not always with the left foot. You would want to do this without locking the fronts, so more controlled application of the brakes. I suppose you may be on the throttle at the same time if powering out of a corner and looking like running wide - not really sure - I've only ever attempted to use it on turn in (and spun ;-)).

Cheers,
Robin
...don't really agree with the last bit of the 2nd one if you mean it will increase rotation. It would in a Scooby but in a Lotus it will reduce rotation - but OK will slow you down allowing a tighter line so maybe helpful in making it through the corner. :)

I'm not claiming to be an expert in execution but enjoying the thread drift to car fisics. :D

Remember kids, LFB combined with throttle can change the effective brake balance but it's dependent on car configuration.

FWD it shifts balance backwards - increased rotation.
RWD it shifts balance forwards - reduced rotation.
4WD a more complicated relationship and depends on the 4WD system but generally shifts weight forward and adds rotation.

My earlier example was slowing or stabilising the car.

For example, consider the (maybe) hypothetical scenario when you're in a 2-11 at Spa. The MP4-12C ahead has pulled a big gap on the run down from La Source but he brakes heavily and you keep it pinned. Midway through Eau Rouge you're gaining too fast but know the consequences if you lift...
At this point some LFB (whilst still flat on the throttle) slows the car in an undramatic fashion thus avoiding the expensive McLaren rump and the concrete walls/barriers. ;)

Similarly light applications (with throttle) can stabilise overrotation.
All characters appearing in this post are fictitious. Any resemblance to real persons, living or dead, is purely coincidental.
Any references to laptimes, speed or driving on the public highway are purely for dramatic effect.

User avatar
Andy G
Posts: 11385
Joined: Thu Mar 10, 2005 10:27 am
Location: Dirleton/Gullane
Contact:

Re: Lambo Huracan Crash

Post by Andy G » Fri Jan 23, 2015 12:21 pm

Was that before or after he nearly binned it Ali? :damnfunny :cheers
AMG GT-R
Atom 4 - CM425
Lotus Esprit S4S
G30 M5 Comp
Ferrari 599
Lotus Elise S1 "Shed" spec

User avatar
alicrozier
Posts: 4390
Joined: Thu Sep 01, 2005 12:58 pm
Location: Aberdeen

Re: Lambo Huracan Crash

Post by alicrozier » Fri Jan 23, 2015 12:28 pm

Andy G wrote:Was that before or after he nearly binned it Ali? :damnfunny :cheers
Would have to be before, remember he let us passed after his close inspection of the gravel trap... :mrgreen:
All characters appearing in this post are fictitious. Any resemblance to real persons, living or dead, is purely coincidental.
Any references to laptimes, speed or driving on the public highway are purely for dramatic effect.

User avatar
mckeann
Posts: 5370
Joined: Thu Mar 10, 2005 9:20 am
Location: Bo'ness

Re: Lambo Huracan Crash

Post by mckeann » Fri Jan 23, 2015 12:41 pm

Ali, I disagree with you based on my experience. A little lfb seems to transfer weigt to the front and increase the spin. You need to give a lot of brake to lock the wheels Or else you just make it worse, in my experience. Might be different on the fancy ABS cars?????

User avatar
gambler
Posts: 1245
Joined: Fri Feb 15, 2008 12:51 pm
Location: Dumfries

Re: Lambo Huracan Crash

Post by gambler » Fri Jan 23, 2015 12:42 pm

LFB can also be used in cars with Maooosssive laggy turbos. Rather than waiting for them to spool up when required, nail the throttle as soon as you can to spool it up and control the speed/understeer/oversteer with the brake. With practice you can time it but it can take some of these big buggers a couple of seconds to wake up.
S1 Elise - Shed spec
330d - Dog carrying spec
640d - Grown up spec
Astravan Sportive SE - Supervan spec

User avatar
alicrozier
Posts: 4390
Joined: Thu Sep 01, 2005 12:58 pm
Location: Aberdeen

Re: Lambo Huracan Crash

Post by alicrozier » Fri Jan 23, 2015 1:14 pm

mckeann wrote:Ali, I disagree with you based on my experience. A little lfb seems to transfer weigt to the front and increase the spin. You need to give a lot of brake to lock the wheels Or else you just make it worse, in my experience. Might be different on the fancy ABS cars?????
That's fair enough, I guess to do with the relative amounts of brake/throttle.
I agree weight transfer to front while overrotating will not help. :lol:

Would need to be enough throttle relative to brake so as not to transfer weight - very light brake then.
Also suggest this is preventative (within 'normal' slip angles) rather than invoked at Ape levels of oversteer. :wink:

/don't try this at home
Personally I'd just worry about the steering. :D
All characters appearing in this post are fictitious. Any resemblance to real persons, living or dead, is purely coincidental.
Any references to laptimes, speed or driving on the public highway are purely for dramatic effect.

Post Reply