Car wont start. Help!

[jammacdo]

Guys

My S2 Rover K series has always been totally reliable....until now.

Was driving the car no problems on Saturday. Got home, washed it. Started it up. Drove into garage. Now it wont start!

So everything works as normal up till the moment its supposed to fire into life. I disarm the alarm using the keyfob, the stack light goes out, turn the ignition on, I hear fuel pump prime. All systems go...then turn key one more click and...

I hear a faint click at the back, presume this is the solenoid but nothing else happens.

I have checked all the fuses and they are fine and the battery is indicating 13v (and I charged it overnight)

Is this a starter issue? I have tapped it with the end of a breaker bar but still nothing. Any suggestions?

Its not like I really need the car tomorrow or anything like....

thanks.

[j2 lot]

Sounds like the starter might be jammed. Put it in gear and rock it back and forward until (if) you hear a click.
That's pretty much my expertise exhausted so if that doesn't work - I'm oot.

[jammacdo]

Thanks, tried that but perhaps didn't manage to move it enough. Will try again in the morning.

[robin]

Turn the ignition off, wait for 30 seconds.

Clear the alarm with the button on the fob, so that the car is ready to start.

Turn on the ignition. Do you hear the fuel pump whine (for about 5 seconds, I think)?

Next, turn on the head lights, and then turn the ignition to try to crank the engine. Do the headlines dim/go out completely?

Finally, turn everything off, put the car in neutral, handbrake on.

Now locate the starter in the engine bay (you've already hit, so you know where it is).

Looking at the back of the starter there are two big terminals (screws with nuts on) with big cables on them - one runs into the starter motor proper, the other runs off to the engine bay loom - these are at 3 o'clock and 9 o'clock, ish. At 6 or 12 o'clock there is a spade terminal with a normal thickness wire on it. Find a bit of normal wire (something like a bit of earth cable out of a mains cable). Bare off each end of the wire. Remove the wire that is connected to the spade terminal, pinch one end of your bared off wire to the spade terminal, then briefly touch the other end to the 3 o'clock stud. The starter should clunk and turn over.

Report back what happens ...

[jammacdo]

Robin

Headlights dont even flicker when trying to start the car.

Followed the (excellent) instructions and absolutely NOTHING happens. I was careful to ensure I connected the (mains) wire into the blade terminal of the wire that I removed from the starter solenoid and then pressed the other end to the post at 3o clock (it has the positive feed into it from the battery) Totally nothing happens. I was also ensuring the Stack red flashing light was off and that the fuel pump DOES whir beforehand.

So now what?

[jammacdo]

I took off the ECU cover (never done that before - what a stupid thing to get off, anyway I digress...) and checked the two 20 amp fuses. One was blown. Swapped it out and hey presto, fired into life.

Robin thanks for your help. You are always willing to offer advice and I really appreciate it.

PS - whats that fuse for anyway?

[tut]

First time that I have heard that as a fix.

I would have thought that there was never any reason for an owner to go inside an ECU, in fact I doubt if the AA would.

tut

[robin]

Not sure what that fuse is for - it often blows - and leaves you with your exact symptoms

The reason nothing happened is because I wasn't clear enough in my instructions - you should have connected the wire from the stud to the terminal on the starter, not the stud to the wire you removed. Had you wired across the starter would have turned (actually, the engine would have started!).

Cheers,
Robin

[jammacdo]

Ahh ok that makes more sense. I just thought I'd remove the ECU cover and see what was in there. And just checked the fuses I found. I later looked them up and they are listed as Start Immobiliser and Fuel pump fuses. Both fairly important I'd say After this little annoyance I've ordered a load of blade fuses and I'll just replace the whole lot. Unless they have been changed they will be as old as the car - 13 years so for a few £ I'll change them when its convenient. Other than breaking down just after driving into the dealership, my own garage is probably the best place to break down

[jammacdo]

So it seems I was premature in my replacement fuse being the culprit. I have managed to blow the 20amp fuse again when starting. So I replaced it with a 25amp fuse (yes I know you shouldnt but thought maybe the 20amp was on the limit.)

So that was a few days ago and its been fine since but today I went to start the car from cold and the whine from the fuel pump went on (normal) then I turned the ignition key and all I heard was the solenoid click. I switched the ignition off then waited then back on again. Same thing. Click. Then again. Click. Waited a few seconds then tried again and the starter spun up, and engine fired.

Worked just fine when I left work this evening.

So...

It sounds like there is some sort of resistance in the system. Like the engine is tight or perhaps the starter motor is shot/tight/worn/etc.

What do you experts think? I could replace the starter but it looks a bit of a PITA to do and Elise Parts is quoting about £150 for a new starter and solenoid so I'd want to be fairly sure thats the issue. Any ideas?

thanks

[robin]

Could it just be that when you took off the small wire to test the original problem, you didn't quite put it back properly? That could give the symptoms you describe (not the fuse blowing, that's something else).

If you refer back to my original instructions on how to hot wire the starter I suggest you try that next time it won't turn; if it always turns when you touch a wire from the stud to the spade terminal, but only sometimes turns on the key, then the fault is somewhere else in the circuit that drives the solenoid; if you only get the clunk of the solenoid when hot wiring then the starter is most likely goosed (or, you have head gasket or inlet manifold gasket failure that is allowing coolant to fill up the bore and the engine won't turn until the water clears - which it could do if each time you drive the starter it turns a bit - I don't think this is very likely - but if your car is generating a lot of steam out of the exhaust and you are losing coolant ...).

Cheers,
Robin

[jammacdo]

Thanks Robin

I'll keep an eye on it. Not loosing much coolant now (it would be tiny per 100 mile) so agree, I doubt its the issue you say regards leaking into the bore. Guess the hotwire test is the one to go for just now. I suppose I could remove the starter and see how easy it spins and perhaps rig it up to the battery as well. All this before forking out £150 for a new one.

Been using the car more this week and seems to be more reliable the less time its sitting/more usage

Oh, just noted something else you said... when the starter didn't work (and only the solenoid clicked) the starter didn't budge AT ALL, nothing, not a peep.

Cheers

James

[robin]

There are two things that click - you cannot know which one you heard from sitting in the car - it is common to assume that when you turn the ignition key and you hear a click, that's the starter solenoid - in fact it could also be the main relay that drives the solenoid. To prove that the issue is actually the starter you should hotwire it as described. I would not remove from car and wire up to a battery - you know the starter works sometimes, so that test won't tell you much ...

Cheers,
Robin

[jammacdo]

Robin

same problem today so did this as you said...

"Looking at the back of the starter there are two big terminals (screws with nuts on) with big cables on them - one runs into the starter motor proper, the other runs off to the engine bay loom - these are at 3 o'clock and 9 o'clock, ish. At 6 or 12 o'clock there is a spade terminal with a normal thickness wire on it. Find a bit of normal wire (something like a bit of earth cable out of a mains cable). Bare off each end of the wire. Remove the wire that is connected to the spade terminal, pinch one end of your bared off wire to the spade terminal, then briefly touch the other end to the 3 o'clock stud. The starter should clunk and turn over."

The starter clicked and turned over (although it was brief as I jumped a bit.) Tried again and same thing, spark, click and starter turned over. So I guess its not the starter but something else.

thanks.

[jammacdo]

Tapped the silver barrel thingy (is this the starter solenoid?) that is attached to the starter motor. Refitted the wire onto the blade and the engine started. Now have to decide whether to drive to Manchester like this or not.