Massive Over Fueling - Emerald

Ferg · Post by **Ferg** » Thu Aug 13, 2015 3:44 pm

Hi Folks,

I'm having issues with the Exige of the emissions variety. Basically it's over fuelling badly and failing the MOT. And I don't mean just, it's massively out.

The car has a K6 ECU and I've got myself a data cable so have plugged in and had a look. I instantly realised I have a lot of learning to do. That's something I'm looking forward to but it's not going to happen overnight and I need to get it through an MOT first. So I'm looking for any guidance.

The Lamba looks to be cycling like it should at the start before it goes off the chart rich so I reckon thats ok. The reported throttle position also follows the pedal movement appropriately.

The first thing to be investigated is the IACV. It looks like it's stuck at 40% from the live data. But I'm not sure if that could cause the fuel issue?

If this doesn't work, and we assume that it just has a ludicrously wet map on it, whats the best way to reduce the fueling sufficiently and safely?

This is as much about making sure the engine is running right as much as getting an emissions pass. So once I can use it it'll go to a tuner to help. I'll also look to get it a wide band sensor.

Any help in the meantime is appreciated

kerryxeg · Post by **kerryxeg** » Thu Aug 13, 2015 4:32 pm

I had issues with the 190 ecu, which did not agree with the remote bypass as it kept the engine cool. When the emerald was fitted the warm up map was zero' out to avoid the ecu trying to keep adding fuel for warm up. So that is one issue to check. Does it have a cat fitted as it will definitely not pass without and even with I have struggled. Mapping will help.

steve_weegie · Post by **steve_weegie** » Thu Aug 13, 2015 4:46 pm

How far out is it? Do you have an AFR plot, or any fuel trim info you can pull from the Emerald?

I have an Innovate LC-1 that I'm not using currently, if it's of any use.

Ferg · Post by **Ferg** » Thu Aug 13, 2015 5:34 pm

Yep picked up a cat for it recently. It does have warm up offsets setup but appears to move out of warm up fine. I will look further into that.

I couldn't get the plotting to work earlier when I had 20 mins at lunch to have a go at it. I'll post up how far out is was later and also look further into how to get a plot.

The more I read the more questions I have.. lol

Mikie711 · Post by **Mikie711** » Thu Aug 13, 2015 8:00 pm

Take a screen shot and post your fuel map and the 3d map as pictures. Also the ignition 3d map.

Ferg · Post by **Ferg** » Thu Aug 13, 2015 8:50 pm

AFR target is blanket set to 14.7 and there are no AFR corrections.

At one point when viewing the live feed after starting the car and watching while it idled. I saw the AFR target map showing 12.4 across the board and with a red hue. I suspect that was a warm up adjustment? I'm not near the car so I can't go out and review/repeat what I saw. Getting slowly familiar with navigating the software but not enough to say with confidence when and where I saw this.

mwmackenzie · Post by **mwmackenzie** » Thu Aug 13, 2015 9:10 pm

Tread carefully old pip...

My Esprit engine was killed by a sh*t map! Emerald on your engine though there should be plenty of data/maps available.. Essentially my car had an LC-1 wideband system which kept breaking, went through 3 or 4 units before my engine burnt the top off a liner as it was running lean! My own fault for taking it to someone who'd never done an Esprit before as opposed to sending the car down to an expereienced DTA/Esprit mapper in Oxford to get done. Lesson learnt the hard way there

I'm sure there is a wealth of emerald knowledge on here to help, hope you get it sorted soon bud!

robin · Post by **robin** » Thu Aug 13, 2015 9:48 pm

When the engine is idling and warmed up go to the live settings screen and use the fuel trim to reduce fuelling - see if the engine still runs.

See this picture:

http://www.emeraldm3d.com/media/faq/Liv ... tments.JPG

You can move the red injection trim value up/down and it will trim the current fuel cell but not permanently, so no map change will happen - this is good for experimenting.

If your Lambda sensor is working at all you should be able to make the lambda bar graph move left/right by changing the fuelling. Now, if your lambda is a narrow band sensor then it will just toggle from full rich to full lean with very little sensitivity in the middle. If it's a wide band lambda then you should get more resolution.

As Mark rightly points out, if your lambda is not calibrated then you'll map the idle for 14.7 and will actually be running rich or lean.

Having wasted a substantial portion of my life trying to get Emerald + LC-1 running right I wouldn't hesitate to chuck the whole car on a trailer and drag it down to Dave Walker at Emerald in Norfolk and have him map the damn thing.

Cheers,
Robin

Mikie711 · Post by **Mikie711** » Thu Aug 13, 2015 10:20 pm

Sorry, but you need to get that on a rolling road or re-map it live while someone drives. Both the ignition and fueling 3d map are miles out. On the fueling the 3500 speed site is less than everything around it as is the 5000. The ignition map is all over the place, it should be much smoother transition into advance especially in the mid range. And why would you need huge advance at light throttle.
If your engine is essentially a 190 spec motor then email emerald for a new base map, it will be much closer to what you need and probably a better starting point for getting it mapped properly. And you can't rely on a narrow band sensors for accurate Lambda readings, it has to be wide band. Agree with Robin on the LC-1 with an emerald, nightmare! get a plx wide band. Self calibrates and a piece of p#ss to wire in.
For a little less distance Ricky Gauld up in the NE is the man. Easily the best for mapping K's up here and likely in Scotland. Give me a shout if you want and I can set it up. He can give you a spot on map for your engine and an MOT.

Edit: out of interest could you pop up a pic of the AFR target map, just out of curiosity

Ferg · Post by **Ferg** » Thu Aug 13, 2015 11:30 pm

Thanks guys. So I've got a comedy map...lovely.

There is a rather expensive receipt for a rolling road session to tune it from the owner who had the emerald fitted.

A base map from Emerald sounds like a good place to start but ultimately I definitely want to take it to someone who knows what they are doing. Don't mind a trip to NE for someone who can sort it. Will it need to be fitted with a wideband before that?

I take it the stuck IACV was a red herring then.

The AFR target is all 14.7 as I mentioned. Pic as requested

BigD · Post by **BigD** » Thu Aug 13, 2015 11:39 pm

What was your fuelling like at the rolling road in Glasgow. It had a wideband in the exhaust so should give accurate fuelling.

The graphs do look very odd though.

To be fair though the black smoke did show some over fuelling.

Ferg · Post by **Ferg** » Fri Aug 14, 2015 12:23 am

Did you get feedback on your fueling at the RR day D? Not sure I did. That chap did point to a blip on the curve but that was it. It did spit the odd flame at part load though.

BigD · Post by **BigD** » Fri Aug 14, 2015 5:35 am

Actually thinking about it your open loop maps will not make any difference to your idle and cruise fuelling which is where you'll be for mot test.

Ignore me as I have no knowledge of the emerald.

robin · Post by **robin** » Fri Aug 14, 2015 7:04 am

Mikie711 wrote:Sorry, but you need to get that on a rolling road or re-map it live while someone drives. Both the ignition and fueling 3d map are miles out. On the fueling the 3500 speed site is less than everything around it as is the 5000.

There is often a torque dip at "lower" engine speeds (remember this is a higher revving engine) and so there is often a corresponding fuelling dip.

The ignition map is all over the place, it should be much smoother transition into advance especially in the mid range. And why would you need huge advance at light throttle.

Again, this is common, although usually only seen at lower speed sites, it is the equivalent of vacuum advance on an old distributor. You need more advance when there is less oxygen, I believe. Also it is common to map in a lot of advance below the idle speed to bump the engine out of stall back into idle.

If your engine is essentially a 190 spec motor then email emerald for a new base map, it will be much closer to what you need and probably a better starting point for getting it mapped properly.

Provided your fuel pump, fuel pressure regulator and injectors are standard, this is OK approach. Otherwise the fuelling will be the right shape, but the wrong actual numbers and you would need to rescale the injector pulse widths to compensate for the difference in fuel flow rate. Also the idle tends to be more individual as the amount of fuel you have to pour into an engine like this at idle is extremely sensitive to intake air speed which in turn is dependent on all sorts of mechanical features of the intake path. At wide open throttle it's more predictable for a given setup (or at least less different between engines).

And you can't rely on a narrow band sensors for accurate Lambda readings

You CAN rely on narrow band lambda if all you want to know is whether it is rich or lean - they are very accurate at achieving this. It's not possible to map the engine this way, though, but it is possible to pass the MOT. If your engine mapper has a good lambda sensor to set it all up and you don't want to run adaptive fuelling (why would you) then a narrow band is perfectly OK for it's one task which is to pass the MOT.

Note that whilst all Emerald K6 maps have AFR target maps, most of them don't have it enabled - so Ferg, if you want to know whether or not your AFR map is meaningful, you need to look at the settings pages to see whether adaptive fuelling is enabled.

Cheers,
Robin

robin · Post by **robin** » Fri Aug 14, 2015 7:08 am

P.S. If you share your map with us (post a dropbox link here) then we can take a look at it - note there are two files to share - the actual map and the ECU configuration file.

Scottish Elises