electric revolution has fallen flat ... so dont buy electric

[thinfourth]

how the hell do you value it after 3 years when the batteries are knacked!

Go find me

1 A Toyota Prius with a knackered battery pack

2 A company that has a battery replacement service for the toyota prius


Its been on the market for over a decade so these must be easy to find if the batteries only last 3 years

The prius is a bit of an odd ball in this respect. It uses a massive NiMH battery which it only half charges. The battery is relatively large for the energy it actually provides - remember it's a hybrid so whenever the demand on the engine is more than a a few kW it switches into petrol mode.

For a proper EV you'll need to fully cycle the battery in order to get a reasonable range/weight of battery pack trade off.

Also you'll need to factor in the differences in battery technology. NiMH if properly managed can retain substantial capacity after 1,000s of cycles. LiIon (and LiPo) will lose some capacity on each charge cycle; the LEAF will be masking this by using a slightly larger capacity pack than you can actually use and they will also be limiting charge to somewhat less than maximum, but still the capacity of the LEAF pack will erode faster than the NiMH pack in the prius.

Having said all that, it's perfectly reasonable to assume that with all the electronics and sophistication that goes into making EV battery packs they will last much longer (more cycles) than your mobile telephone or laptop. Nissan are notoriously conservative (I've worked on the fringes of Nissan once or twice, and believe me, they are ultra conservative); they suggest that the pack will last 5 years and retain 80% capacity and that even at that point it will be individual cells (modules) that need replacing, not the whole pack.

Cheers,
Robin

As soon as a nissan leaf comes into my price range i'm buying one

About a year before they are all in a scrapyard

[robin]

One problem with diesel hybrids might be the relatively high torque required to turn over a diesel when it's not running (more waste energy start/stopping the engine) and also the lack of fancy valve technology. I'm not sure how the various hybrids work, but the Prius, for example, uses fancy valve timing to reduce the engine's compression ratio and a quick look at wikipedia suggests that nearly all hybrid EVs use this "atkinson" cycle mode. Basically it gives you a, say, 1.5L engine output power for a 2L engine, but with greatly improved efficiency.

Diesel engines would be good in a fully electric drive train - i.e. Diesel->Generator->Battery "flywheel"->Electric motor ... but I think it's been shown that this approach is not as efficient as simply driving the wheels with the diesel.

Synthetic fuel and ever more efficient engines is likely to beat all of these approaches in the end, I think.

Cheers,
Robin

P.S. I very much doubt any 3rd party will get involved with servicing the battery packs on these cars ... very expensive and risky if you get it wrong.

[clan]

http://www.autocar.co.uk/car-news/genev ... enault-zoe

The new Renault appears to make far more sense than the Leaf although you need to factor in something lke £79 a month to lease the batteries.

[robin]

Renault and Nissan share a huge amount (including a common owner- Renault-Nissan). It's funny then that the Leaf and the Zoe have nothing much in commmon ... 79/month to lease the batteries is too much - I barely spend that on diesel for Katie's car (which doesn't move much and could easily be a 50 mile range EV 50 weeks of the year).

Cheers,
Robin

[clan]

http://www.renault-ze.com/en-gb/electri ... 65663.html

I'm pretty sure the battery hire includes a host of other things as well including a recovery/ recharge service if you run out of charge which may come in handy. I think even Renaults other EV the Twizzy is around £45/£49 a month for the batteries, I suppose it protects you from large bills down the line.

[r10crw]

Mate just bought an ampera and it's brilliant. If I had 30 k to buy a car that's what I'd have for sure, it's quick off the line, he gets 50 mile range just now before turning on the gene and means u don't get stuck.
Brilliant car.

[j2 lot]

I would agree that the Ampera has an appeal but not at the price. If it was maybe £5k cheaper we would have one. But the advantage of the low running cost is lost with the higher initial purchase price. That and the uncertainty over future value and maintenance costs rules it out

[H8OAG]

I am all for electric cars.............
Anything that keeps Father G amused in his twilight years and ultimately stops him from donning skintight Lycra/cycling around Perthshire/ alarming young mothers and children with his "bulge"
He is one cycle ride away from being placed on the Sex Offenders Register!

[Dominic]

[thinfourth]

Well

Nissan will let you have a leaf for 4 days

I took them up on their offer

What a deeply impressive car.

Almost completely silent to drive, it responds instantly to the throttle and it is far quicker then the figures suggest.

I found recharging to be zero hassle. You wake up to a car with 80 miles range and it is nice and warm as it heats the car off the mains.

It makes the polar at work an Audi A6 seem positively stoneage

I think i will be buying one which considering i'm a tight git is somewhat of a statement.

I am not bothered by the range as we have other cars for long distance so this car will spend 90% of its life shuttling back and forth from work.

[j2 lot]

Interesting! I Like the look of the Renault Zoe but not ready to do leccy yet.
Check out the Scottish Government loan scheme -up to £50k interest free up to 6 years - you could buy a Tesla instead of a Nissan

[tut]

.

[tut]

If I had carried on with a Motability car I would have looked closely at an electric or hybrid this month. No probs with leasing batteries or even putting fuel in, charging virtually zero cost with our system here, and every model available barring the likes of Tessla.

However it still means losing £3.4K/annum from the Disability Allowance and the CR-V is ticking along nicely with no tax to pay and mini insurance, so hard to justify especially for our small old gits mileage.

Choices at present are Outlander, Jazz, Auris, Renault Zoe, Leaf. I could choose the top model in each case, ie SatNav, leather etc, never driven any of them, so what would be the choice for four doors and room for the dogs occasionally with the back seats down.

tut

[David]

Just had a friend buy a Leaf http://scottish-sunbeams.blogspot.co.uk ... chive.html I believe there's a larger battery and better range on it's way. I'm not a huge fan of electric cars but think the technology is maturing and probably unstoppable.

[Dominic]

Well

Nissan will let you have a leaf for 4 days
.

there is an autotest in a few weeks time.....