Newbie loads of questions !

[kneedoon]

Hello all, this is my first post to this forum although I have emailed Tut a few times last year with questions. Apologies in advance I have loads of questions and hoping you guys can possibly help. I have an S1 Elise that I have had for around a year with very little use. It has always handled badly since I got it, it's done 34k miles, however rather than sell it I have now bit the bullet and committed to getting it sorted out over the winter as I can see the potential. The last few evenings I have spent getting the front & rear clams off so I am now ready to crack on but questions as below before I order parts, I will be tracking it all going well maybe 5 - 6 times a year but want it primarily setup for road, questions are:

Nitrons, Bilsteins or Quantums ?

What bushes should I get ?

Where can I get wishbones powder coated around Aberdeen / Aberdeenshire

Who would you recommend to set up the geo, AW Autotech ?

Radiator upgrade, basic aluminium one from Eliseparts or triple core ? Single or dual fans?

I have a good K20 motor should I install it as part of this overhaul (cost dependant) or stick with the K ( runs well with no issues) and change timing-belt etc and maybe proactively change head gasket ?

Any other jobs I should be doing ? On my list I have Tow post, windscreen, maybe heater matrix, clutch pipe, braided brake hoses, discs & pads (any recommendations would be appreciated)

Any responses / advice would be appreciated as I am now balls deep in Elise parts in my garage !!


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[kneedoon]

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[robin]

For mixed use I would go for the quantums. You should decide on ride height - personally I have never been a fan of the slammed setup and prefer to have the car slightly higher up and with about 10mm more ride height at the back than the front - but there's no science to that - just what I do. Whatever ride height you think you want best talk to the supplier to make sure the suspension you're buying will allow reasonable droop and bump travel at that ride height.

I would use OEM bushes; the harder bushes are better for pure track use in the sense that they control suspension angle changes more accurately (i.e. you get to keep the settings you thought you had) but apart from that they offer little advantage (the ultimate track setups get rid of the bushes and replace with spherical bearings). The OEM rubber bushes give you a more compliant ride on our "smooth" roads

Cannot help on the powder coating, but note these things get battered by gravel/road salt - so it might be better to simply clean and paint them with hammerite or similar - then you can re-paint from time to time without removing them. Totally your call AND completely unnecessary so perhaps don't bother

Anywhere that has a 4-wheel alignment fixture would be best. Note the elise has (it seems) unusual settings so make sure you know what settings you're going for and that they understand what you're asking for. Also in theory it should be setup with 50% tank of fuel and some weight in the seats to try to get an average level. Also you're notice immediately if the wheel isn't straight so it's really important that the wheel is locked in the straight ahead position by somebody sitting in the seat (sometimes people lean in from the window and do it - inevitably this results in some bias).

There is no need for dual fans, even on higher horsepower level should you go there one day (assuming we're talking 200-ish, not 400-ish). I've always used the single core alloy rad and never had problems with heat dissipation. You should make sure you actually run the fan periodically so it doesn't seize. Easiest way to do this is just let the car idle after a run until the fan cuts in and then out again. On a cold day you might need to hold the throttle open a bit to make this happen.

Don't change the head gasket unless you know you've got the old plastic dowels. Do change the timing belt, tensioner and water pump. If you already have the engine the kit to install is not so expensive, but I figure I would get the car handling right with the K and then drop the K20 in another day when you're bored with the K or it breaks (which it might never do).

If you have the red clutch hose you must replace it.

Tow post - I've never bothered but people do replace these for the stainless one and if you're doing the rad then I think you'll be in the right place to do it anyway.

I assume screen is bust - otherwise why change it!!

The heater matrix can weep - you'll tell that by the rubbery stuff around it being greasy - if it ain't weeping I wouldn't replace it.

I used to swear by braided hoses but haven't bothered so much in recent years and haven't really missed them. If you do fit them make sure you secure them such that they can move with the wishbone travel and won't fret on anything. The original P-clip secured to the wishbone is inadequate for this without some sleeving (the rubber pipe is thicker; the metal pipe is loose in the P-clip; this frets the rubber sleeve out of the P-clip and then the metal pipe rubs against the metal clip and eventually the pipe fails - very scary when it happens!!).

I use solid disks these days (no drilling, no grooves) because otherwise you always seem to end up with knock-knock-knock from the brake pads driving around town I use pagid RS4-2 for mixed road/track use. Don't be tempted to go higher spec than this as they need heating and won't bite first time you hit the pedal hard on a cold winter's morning. Others use the CL pads - I have had mixed experience with those so reverted to the pagid, but others have the exact opposite experience - not helpful I know - but how it is!

Check the gear linkage - consider replacing if worn/sticky.

Check the engine mounts.

Check the downpipe at the flexi joint and also at the manifold; the elise goes through these with monotonous regularity and they are a PITA to replace AND they often fail on a european track day trip ... so best start new. If you're doing that you could consider replacing the whole manifold and downpipe with the piper 4:2:1 setup which has the advantage of allowing a nimbus style heatshield to be bolted to the manifold (rather than the hideous fibre board thing that the S1 comes with and usually that's destroyed). That's quite pricey though, so I wouldn't do if you know you'll put the K20 in at some point. Simply replacing the downpipe is about 100 in parts I think.

Cheers,
Robin

[tut]

Started to reply earlier Robin then realised that you would make a better job of it.

However can help out if he goes the Honda route.

tut

[woody]

Couple of things to add to robin's comprehensive reply, seriouslylotus.com do the OEM type bushes at much less than directly from lotus & will put them in a full suspension overhaul kit for you (don't think they sell quantums though).

Do change the tow post. It's 99% sure to be rotten beyond use if it's original and a new post is a great deal cheaper & easier now than learning that the hard way (I learnt the hard way).

[mwmackenzie]

Car looks great... Honda in an elise is pretty much as it should always have been.... I've driven a couple, my only -ve would be the engine on the ones I drove were mounted a bit more solid than the std elise so slightly more vibration in the cabin, other than that they were amazing!

[kneedoon]

What a brilliant response from you all I really appreciate you're advice. I will take it all on and maybe go for Quantums I noticed that seriously lotus seem to be offering a deal on a refresh kit including nitron streets ? Also just noticed my rear toe links look well worn so will order new ones at the same time.

On the Head gasket how do I know if I have the plastic dowels it's a '98?

I do have a red clutch hose so will get it changed.

The screen is ok but milky around the bottom so looks to have lost its adhesion.

I will remove the tow post to see condition.

Matrix seems ok so may not change yet then. Good advice on the brakes my discs all seem standard so will get RS4-2's and new discs any recommendations on discs ?

Regarding the downpipe I have taken a photo of the manifold looks like exhaust is aftermarket no idea what make ? Looks like 4:2:1 with a real botch to the fibre board thing, can I buy a nimbus heat shield for it or do I need to get the material and make one?

I will kick off suspension and radiator overhaul next week and ponder what to do with the motor one min I'm changing the next I'm sticking with it !

Thanks again looking forward to getting out in it shortly with hopefully half decent handling




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[tut]

What was your e-mail address when we are chatting and I will bring it up again?

Did we discuss MMC disks? As you have a '98 car it would have had MMC's up to July and steels after that. Also as you have a standard power Elise I would look at fitting them, they were part of the ethos of the car, weigh 12kg less than the steels, and gave great braking, albeit less so in the wet but then you should not be braking heavily in the wet. Ask Andy Walsh his opinion.

I carried on using them all round as far as 220hp N1, and then on the rears of 300hp N3, inclined to melt on the front on the track, but I seem to be pretty much on my own nowadays, most owners ditched them for steels, not sure why other than sheep syndrome.

Stelvio tradition existed because of MMC's so I tried to keep it going.

tut

ps:- let me know if you would like a run in N3, it will give you an idea of what the Honda feels like before you look at doing a conversion.

[robin]

If you get as far as removing the tow post, replace it

I need to find my engine manual to find out whether a '98 is likely to have the plastic dowels - I cannot remember off the top of my head - but I think it was around the 2000 mark that Rover started to put in the plastic dowels and then not long after before they switched back to steel dowels - so I think a '98 should have been fitted with steel dowels from new - question is, do you know whether the head gasket is original?

Hard to say from that photo which manifold that is but to me it look like there's a flange where the 4 primaries meet. If so then this is a standard S1 exhaust manifold; the other manufacturers of 4:2:1 and 4:1 manifolds don't have a flange there. That heat shield looks like the original one too - though long time since I've seen one; the flap on the right of the picture keeps the heat away from the alternator (important). Early cars (earlier than yours, I think) had this mounted to the engine; later cars had it mounted to the bulkhead.

You cannot tell if the toe links are worn by looking at them - is there any play in them? If not I would be inclined to leave them alone as you'll get very little value out of fitting the uprated kit unless you plan on running on track tyres (not really a great idea in scotland on the roads ).

[BigD]

Suspension; I've just changed mine on my S2 as the original bilsteins were getting on a bit. I went for Nitron Street Series as they were in a group buy on the VX220 forum at a great price. Not sure what the difference is from them and the quantums but probably quite similar. As for ride height the Street series won't let you go very low on the fronts so I have just put them down to about 120mm from 130mm and 125mm at the rear from 130mm (although actually measured higher at about 135mm standard).

I do the odd track day but also use the car on the road so need road comfort so went for relatively soft springs although these are still much stiffer than the standard ones. One other thing to think about is a front anti roll bar as that made a huge difference to mine before I changed the suspension.

Discs and Pads; I use the Pagid RS14's rather than the 42's. I don't find they require any heat up on the road and are a great lasting pad for road and track. I use cheap Apec discs from ebay or a local motorfactors (TMS). They cost around £25 each so very cheap and have worked great for me. The pads are the expensive bit.

[robin]

Note: BigD drives like a maniac, so probably his first press of the brake pedal is -4g from 120mph ... on a private road, obvz, ... Interesting - I found the RS14s wooden when cold, but then I do drive like miss daisy

[kneedoon]

Brilliant responses I have lots to consider will order all the suspension, brake & radiator parts on Monday maybe a mix between Eliseparts & seriously Lotus are these companies good to deal with ? Robin you are right with the manifold there is a flange so I will check the downpipe etc. Rear toe links seem to have allot of play in them so assume I need to replace ?

I have attached a few bad quality pics showing current discs, rear toe link and tonight's effort at freeing up garage space ! I would never make it as a joiner and Mrs G won't be impressed when she goes looking for the duvet !

Thanks again all well impressed with this forum. If interested I can continue to post progress but I'm sure you've seen it all before, although I'm sure I will have a few questions along the way.


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[robin]

The toe links are supposed to have rotational play - imagine gripping the bar that connects them like the grip of a motor cycle and twisting the throttle open/shut - that's supposed to rotate and in fact if it did not then you would have a lot of problems!

They are not meant to have play apart from that rotational freedom - so if you can push/pull the bar left/right in your photo, or if you can pull the joint to/from the subframe (7 o'clock to 1 o'clock direction in your photo) then there is play to worry about.

Note the other problem you get is that the hole in the subframe where the stud of the ball joint runs through to the wishbone on the other side can become oval - then no amount of replacing the joint or tightening it will fix that. So take a close look around where you appear to have squirted some lube and see if there's any play between the joint and the subframe.

Those disks look as new - if all the faces look like that I wouldn't replace unless they've reached the minimum service thickness (cannot remember exactly what that is - can look it up though - if I can find my S1 manual somewhere).

Cheers,
Robin

[j2 lot]

I have dealt with both Eliseparts and Seriously Lotus and can reccomend them both. Seriously Lotus in particularly have chased up parts (wheel centres) and made phone calls and enquiries of suppliers when I couldn't get size info from Lotus.

[tut]

New 26mm, minimum 24mm.

tut