Brexit.

[mxvx]

Haha, funniest thing you've ever posted on SE Kenny

Firstly, Scuffers tone in posts does come across very shouty and argumentative. I've met him in real life and it's not like this at all, so not sure why his posting style is like that.

Secondly. You've met robin yeh? Bully????????? The friendliest most helpful man on SE!!!!! Geniuenly LOL'd when you said that as it couldn't be further from the truth in my experience.

Thirdly, robins not telling Simon he can't put his point across, he just asked him to do it in a less aggressive manner. He can say what he likes, just say it nicely. Hardly shutting down the argument.


Anyway, peace out brother, love and hugs,

This X 100. Absolutely hilarious/confusing to call robin a bully. From reading all the tech issues I am yet to see one where robin hasn't written a very useful post. I know it's not the point of this thread but on the last SIDC trackday he (and craig) were among those helping selflessly all the SEers with issues/breakdowns to help them get going again.
Anyway, I am trying to get my own head around the pro's and cons. How does this site look to the knowledgeable among you?
https://brexit2016blog.wordpress.com/

[thinfourth]

If you see no valid reason behind a leave vote then you ain't looking hard enough

I'll give you one

We can bring in an immigration system where we can select people on skills and benefit to the UK

Not just their country of origin

The validity aspect is a personal thing of course.

Why do you consider that argument to be invalid?


I can see nothing honourable or good in a system which allows unlimited numbers of europeans in while heavily controlling equally qualified and equally beneficial workers from india and beyond

[thinfourth]

And whatever you have decided try not to relate your argument to the SNP.

Its difficult not to

http://www.scotsman.com/news/nicola-stu ... -1-4158610

In the highly unlikely event of queen Nicola shutting her trap then i can make my choice based on being in or out of the EU

Sadly i am denied that choice

As queen Nicola has spoken and has framed the debate about the neverendum

So i am voting leave

Purely because of the SNP stance

[captain]

I'm genuinely undecided in this.

Been as far as 80% sure I'll vote remain to 80% sure I'll vote leave.

I don't believe we realise the value of our contributions to the EU and I don't believe leaving would hurt our trade or currency beyond the very short term.

However, I would rather be in a UK that was part of Europe than in an independent Scotland struggling to join the EU (and probably having to adopt the Euro in the process).

I'm with Thinfourth - I'll do the opposite of what the SNP want.

[pete]

And whatever you have decided try not to relate your argument to the SNP.

Its difficult not to

http://www.scotsman.com/news/nicola-stu ... -1-4158610

In the highly unlikely event of queen Nicola shutting her trap then i can make my choice based on being in or out of the EU

Sadly i am denied that choice

As queen Nicola has spoken and has framed the debate about the neverendum

So i am voting leave

Purely because of the SNP stance

Oh bollocks that's not what it says at all (as I suspect you well know), it's just twisted by the Scotsman.

I'd guess that she doesn't want another vote anymore than I do, and is trying to answer the muppets claiming that a Leave vote may result in a enough momentum to get indy ref 2. Thus her message is "don't vote leave in order to force another indy ref, it won't work."

[pete]

And whatever you have decided try not to relate your argument to the SNP.

Its difficult not to

http://www.scotsman.com/news/nicola-stu ... -1-4158610

In the highly unlikely event of queen Nicola shutting her trap then i can make my choice based on being in or out of the EU

Sadly i am denied that choice

As queen Nicola has spoken and has framed the debate about the neverendum

So i am voting leave

Purely because of the SNP stance

Oh bollocks that's not what it says at all (as I suspect you well know), it's just twisted by the Scotsman.

I'd guess that she doesn't want another vote anymore than I do, and is trying to answer the muppets claiming that a Leave vote may result in a enough momentum to get indy ref 2. Thus her message is "don't vote leave in order to force another indy ref, it won't work."

[pete]

Watch on YouTube

[thinfourth]

Oh bollocks that's not what it says at all (as I suspect you well know), it's just twisted by the Scotsman.

I'd guess that she doesn't want another vote anymore than I do, and is trying to answer the muppets claiming that a Leave vote may result in a enough momentum to get indy ref 2. Thus her message is "don't vote leave in order to force another indy ref, it won't work."

So what did she say then?

http://www.bbc.co.uk/news/uk-scotland-s ... s-36571267


Maybe she should shut her gob and let the debate in scotland not be focused on her

As shock horror


She does not speak for scotland

And she certainly doesn't speak for me

[Sanjøy]

Tactical voting against the SNP in a national vote cannot work.
If your head and heart say one thing then go for it.
I hear what you are saying but I just can't see it working. If the UK leave she will be all over a referendum again as she wants to remain. (Note you may have said that and I have skim read)

[c8rkh]

Actually, I don't think she does want to remain deep down, and the SNP have not historically, if I am recalling correctly, been fiercely pro EU and certainly not lovers of the Euro, which is what they will have to accept if we get Brexit and an independent Scotland then joins the EU.
However, what she does want is a new mandate for Indyref2 and she will do whatever she can to get it, but only, on her terms and preferably to her timing. She's quite a wiley old bugger really, though I just cannot abide her sour puss of a face when I see it snearing and growling on the TV.

However, if we do get Indyref2, I'd like to see the question turned around this time, to "Should Scotland remain a part of the UK" as I'd like to see how the SNP's enlightened politics and approach will deal with campaigning for a "No" vote, as it's quite a bit different in tone and positivity to campaigning for a "Yes". I think it's only fair to alternate the question and makes all those fading desperate "Yes" stickers I still see on cars redundant somewhat lol.

Roll on Thursday and then we can get back to the important stuff, like what you did with your Lotus today.

[PhilA]

SNP - independent nations working together on common shared interests.
Exactly one of the reasons that UK union is good. Gotta love that.

They want Remain - for political difference from UK - that difference = trigger for indyref.
Its the only reason they pushing so hard for it - as its their punchline in every debate.
Sheep in wolves clothing.
Its also anti UKIP, which for them is AKA right wing Tory - hence all the "Boris will be PM" "scaremongering".


Folk coming to work from EU vs folk from outside EU.
We take in pretty much equal from both sides - so if its too much, cut down the outside.
They are not, so meh.
Mate lives down south, says too many non British - changing the was Schools are run - RE, etc.
IMHO, thats just the world changing, same as per gay marriage etc.
We are mixing more.

Refugees - thats a First World problem, because the Whole World needs to work together to help everyone wherever they live - and that change will happen one day.

Financially, we will be hurt - as there will be fees to trade with EU if we leave.

Law making - thank feck we are part of EU, some pretty good long term laws made there.


IMHO, working together works when we share problems - so unions and collective responsibility (financial, law, health, natural resources, trading conditions for companies, refugees) are best tackled in the Union.
Sure, solving the problems means that unions share issues as well as benefits, and that the unions will be tested and evolve as a reaction to that...

But voting Remain is the best forward thinking solution to the world issues.
Start at home, looking in the mirror.
Nothing good will come of retreating behind the shores and saying "its not our problem, ur on ur own".

xD

[c8rkh]

All well and good and rationale points. But the fundamental issue you missed is that the EU Executive is NOT electable and NOT accountable to anyone. This is fundamentally just qrong on so many levels, politically, morally, and from a governance perspective.

Yes, the world needs to help each other so why does tbis largely always mean that Northern Hemisphere countries, in the West have to bear the lion's share?

What about the rest?

Like Communism, in its simplest form, the EU is a worthy agenda, but like with every known implementation of Communism it is flawed and manipulated to the benefit of the elite few at the cost of the many.

The EU in its current form is fatally corrupt and the house needs to be brought down. Only then can it be rebuilt in a new more positive manner.

The Leaders and elite of the EU are like the last Emperor and his elite of Rome - oblivious to the forces that ultimately brought about their downfall.

The Common Market and freedom of movement for WORKERS I am all for. The rest is just simply not needed and is self serving for the EU elite. Let's leave, watch the great EU experiment implode and then lead the rebuilding of a new Coomon Market without the excess baggage.

[Scuffers]

Financially, we will be hurt - as there will be fees to trade with EU if we leave.

unlikely, I repeat, we are the biggest consumer market in the EU, we run a massive trade deficit to the EU, you think the rest of the EU will put up trade barriers to their biggest customer?

Most of the EU is in recession, you really think they can afford to start a trade war?

Law making - thank feck we are part of EU, some pretty good long term laws made there.

name a single EU law that's (1) a good idea and (2) was not already covered in UK law.

[istoo]

C8rkh quote... Bloody tapatalk not behavng



Fundamentally I agree with that, however is this appears like the Scottish referendum where it's a polarised yes or no. Where what it needs is a change. IF that is tabled then it's a mild hope that the democrats give the voting public and option that might work

I do think we need to be in it though.








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[istoo]

Financially, we will be hurt - as there will be fees to trade with EU if we leave.

unlikely, I repeat, we are the biggest consumer market in the EU, we run a massive trade deficit to the EU, you think the rest of the EU will put up trade barriers to their biggest customer?

Most of the EU is in recession, you really think they can afford to start a trade war?
.

We have become a consumer economy with diminishing manufacturing economy we need cheap labour to sustain that. Going back a few pages that's either immigrants (EU or otherwise) OR making our own national lazy feckers work, the later is a bigger problem IMHO.




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