Brexit.

[tut]

Not sure if many of you have discovered the Radio programmes "The News Quiz" which alternates with "The Now Show" throughout the year on Sat at 1230 on R4. Both to my mind are unmissable and are on permanent record. Try this one off special on the Referendum.

http://www.bbc.co.uk/programmes/b07gdlkf

tut

[c8rkh]

@ISTOO totally agree re your last point. Unemployment benefit was introduced as a stop gap measure to provide a safety net, NOT to become a way of life some ( I know full well not everyone on benefits is a lazy fecking scrounger, but also know full well some are!).

Being out of the EU will not stop immigration, but it will give us more control about who we let in, and I for one would like that control.

Remaining in the EU means we have to take the good EU immigration (educated, skilled people who want to live in this great country and build a positive life for them and their families) with the feckless useless workshy "bad" immigrants who think it will be an easy ride to tsake our benefits, get a house and then play the system during the day whilst they illegally make money on top through all sorts of scams and behaviours. Jeez, once we find these buggers,currently we can't even eject them, well at least if we were out we could.

There are plenty of examples of good, decent, hard working immigrants, with skills we need, who are positively discriminated against as they are not from the EU (from India, Pakistan, Africa, etc.) - well actually, some of the first waves of these immigrants from these areas are a good percentage of our current medical doctors and consultants, GP's, teachers, lawyers etc. Why would we not want these people here?

[tenkfeet]

Not sure if many of you have discovered the Radio programmes "The News Quiz" which alternates with "The Now Show" throughout the year on Sat at 1230 on R4. Both to my mind are unmissable and are on permanent record. Try this one off special on the Referendum.

http://www.bbc.co.uk/programmes/b07gdlkf

tut

Also on Friday at 6.30pm. Don't forget Just a Minute on Monday at 6.30pm. Bugger I am getting old.

[PhilA]

Financially, we will be hurt - as there will be fees to trade with EU if we leave.

unlikely, I repeat, we are the biggest consumer market in the EU, we run a massive trade deficit to the EU, you think the rest of the EU will put up trade barriers to their biggest customer?

Most of the EU is in recession, you really think they can afford to start a trade war?

We would get no fee if we accept free movement.
If we got no fee and not free movement, then imagine the reaction of those inside the EU who have to put up with Euro and free movement - id imagine it would fall apart.

Law making - thank feck we are part of EU, some pretty good long term laws made there.

name a single EU law that's (1) a good idea and (2) was not already covered in UK law.

workers' rights?
Sure, UK has adopted/implemented alot of it, but it comes from EU lead.

[Scuffers]

Financially, we will be hurt - as there will be fees to trade with EU if we leave.

unlikely, I repeat, we are the biggest consumer market in the EU, we run a massive trade deficit to the EU, you think the rest of the EU will put up trade barriers to their biggest customer?

Most of the EU is in recession, you really think they can afford to start a trade war?

We would get no fee if we accept free movement.
If we got no fee and not free movement, then imagine the reaction of those inside the EU who have to put up with Euro and free movement - id imagine it would fall apart.

Law making - thank feck we are part of EU, some pretty good long term laws made there.

name a single EU law that's (1) a good idea and (2) was not already covered in UK law.

workers' rights?
Sure, UK has adopted/implemented alot of it, but it comes from EU lead.

workers rights?

really?

All EU rights were already in place in UK law before the EU thought about them, for example, UK guarantees 28 days leave, EU say's 20.

I find it amusing that the Labour party go on about this when it was mostly their doing that the UK laws were in place before the EU.

this whole workers right argument is bogus, but as usual, the media are to thick/biased/stupid/shallow to actually do any research on it.

[istoo]

Not sure if many of you have discovered the Radio programmes "The News Quiz" which alternates with "The Now Show" throughout the year on Sat at 1230 on R4. Both to my mind are unmissable and are on permanent record. Try this one off special on the Referendum.

http://www.bbc.co.uk/programmes/b07gdlkf

tut

One of my pieces of sanity [THUMBS UP SIGN]


Sent from my iPhone using Tapatalk

[PhilA]

workers rights?

really?

All EU rights were already in place in UK law before the EU thought about them, for example, UK guarantees 28 days leave, EU say's 20.

I find it amusing that the Labour party go on about this when it was mostly their doing that the UK laws were in place before the EU.

this whole workers right argument is bogus, but as usual, the media are to thick/biased/stupid/shallow to actually do any research on it.

just googled it more to see - and u are right regarding number of holidays - http://www.bbc.co.uk/news/uk-politics-e ... m-36434855

UK could reduce it, but that would have to go through approval in P.

[c8rkh]

So @PhilA yet another example of the miss-information that is being peddled around here.

Without the EU, we still had pretty good workers rights here and we a good and strong legal system that backed up those rights. However, we did secure a number of "opt outs", for instance around the working time directive and we do have some laws that make it easier to "downsize" staffing in the UK than in say France, Germany, Belgium, Holland etc. Though, much as these things can be seen as a "downside" as they give our workers less rights, we also need to understand that it has also made our workforce more attractive as it can be rapidly scaled up and down as the market demand for goods and services dictates. This is one of the reasons why our economy has been more resilient than say in France, where they have little ability to "flex" in a cost effective manner and so foreign companies are reluctant to set up HQ's there. However, even this is now changing in France with Hollande being forced to sledgehammer through workforce reform in the face of an economy that is currently crippled by over complex and financially ruinous practices and laws.

Generally, the Tories want a more flexible workforce with less conditions to make it easier to flex, and Labour want more established and firmer workers rights. I believe in the UK we do OK and get a balance. Yes from times it swings to the right or the left, but overall, we maintain a sensible balance and this has been a foundation for our success in growing the economy recently.

The issue with the EU is that it is trying to legislate across 27/28 countries, with 27/28 different approaches to work / life balance etc. What works for one - say a 30 hour working week which is what French men want, will not work for the Brits, etc. Cultural differences and national attitudes come in to play and have a profound effect. Also, are we really saying that 500m people, across 27/28 countries, with varying degrees of prosperity and maturity of national infrastructure all want the same things? And why should I, as a hard working UK citizen have some of my taxes and contributions used to subsidise the building of national infrastructure and farming in say Romania, Hungary, etc. when we have plenty of people in need in this country? Yes, maybe I'm blinkered and my view is short sighted, but let's get our own house in order before we pay for everyone elses houses to be better than our own. I don't "owe" these people anything, and they don't "owe" me anything, so why is it costing me and why is it diverting funds away from my national infrastructure (including the NHS)?

[thinfourth]

workers rights?

really?

All EU rights were already in place in UK law before the EU thought about them, for example, UK guarantees 28 days leave, EU say's 20.

I find it amusing that the Labour party go on about this when it was mostly their doing that the UK laws were in place before the EU.

this whole workers right argument is bogus, but as usual, the media are to thick/biased/stupid/shallow to actually do any research on it.

just googled it more to see - and u are right regarding number of holidays - http://www.bbc.co.uk/news/uk-politics-e ... m-36434855

UK could reduce it, but that would have to go through approval in P.

Your basic argument is

The UK is so backwards is only the EU can save us

[Scuffers]

Your basic argument is

The UK is so backwards is only the EU can save us

that seems to be the argument of the labour party.

ie. we can't ever win an election with our lefty stupidity, so let's give the power to the EU dictatorship.

ie. it's the anti-tory vote to vote for the EU (and this coming from somebody that's never voted Tory!)

Whatever happened to democracy?

[BiggestNizzy]

so let's give the power to the EU dictatorship.

Whatever happened to democracy?

In what way is the European Union a dictatorship?

What did happen to democracy ?
Iin the UK we have a party with a majority who only got 36% of the vote 3rd place SNP get 4.7% of the vote and get 7 times more seats than 4th place who got 7.9% of the vote.

[PhilA]

workers rights?

really?

All EU rights were already in place in UK law before the EU thought about them, for example, UK guarantees 28 days leave, EU say's 20.

I find it amusing that the Labour party go on about this when it was mostly their doing that the UK laws were in place before the EU.

this whole workers right argument is bogus, but as usual, the media are to thick/biased/stupid/shallow to actually do any research on it.

just googled it more to see - and u are right regarding number of holidays - http://www.bbc.co.uk/news/uk-politics-e ... m-36434855

UK could reduce it, but that would have to go through approval in P.

Your basic argument is

The UK is so backwards is only the EU can save us

nope - more like the UP parties flip flop in government.
One while its all pro this, then its all con that and pro something else.

for years independents have been crying out for some longer term planning - e.g. on rail / nhs

so yeah, the flip flop of UK governments is causing us unable to reach our full potential - there is not consistent longer term standards.


standards is one thing the EU does in abundance.

[pete]

So @PhilA yet another example of the miss-information that is being peddled around here.

Without the EU, we still had pretty good workers rights here and we a good and strong legal system that backed up those rights. However, we did secure a number of "opt outs", for instance around the working time directive and we do have some laws that make it easier to "downsize" staffing in the UK than in say France, Germany, Belgium, Holland etc. Though, much as these things can be seen as a "downside" as they give our workers less rights, we also need to understand that it has also made our workforce more attractive as it can be rapidly scaled up and down as the market demand for goods and services dictates. This is one of the reasons why our economy has been more resilient than say in France.

But less resilient than say in Germany.

Generally, the Tories want a more flexible workforce with less conditions to make it easier to flex, and Labour want more established and firmer workers rights. I believe in the UK we do OK and get a balance. Yes from times it swings to the right or the left, but overall, we maintain a sensible balance and this has been a foundation for our success in growing the economy recently.

UK industry currently back in recession.

The issue with the EU is that it is trying to legislate across 27/28 countries, with 27/28 different approaches to work / life balance etc. What works for one - say a 30 hour working week which is what French men want, will not work for the Brits, etc. Cultural differences and national attitudes come in to play and have a profound effect. Also, are we really saying that 500m people, across 27/28 countries, with varying degrees of prosperity and maturity of national infrastructure all want the same things?

Yes BUT the point of that is to have a Common Market, levelling the playing field. If we leave, and we start deliberately unevening the "playing field" we will not be allowed access to their market without tariffs - why would we? That's one of the main reasons for tariffs and pretty much the definition of the common market. You seem to be suggesting we should leave and change our rules but still get access to their market. But then it won't be OUR common market, it will be theirs and they will only let us trade if we obey their rules, which we will no longer have a say in setting. qv Norway.


And finally remember it's not a zero sum game, by increasing the wealth of a nation you increase the size of it as a market etc etc.. You also help folk. So all good.

Your entitled to your opinion but I don't think your argument, at least as portrayed here, is an accurate description of how the system works or is even working.

[Scuffers]

So @PhilA yet another example of the miss-information that is being peddled around here.

Without the EU, we still had pretty good workers rights here and we a good and strong legal system that backed up those rights. However, we did secure a number of "opt outs", for instance around the working time directive and we do have some laws that make it easier to "downsize" staffing in the UK than in say France, Germany, Belgium, Holland etc. Though, much as these things can be seen as a "downside" as they give our workers less rights, we also need to understand that it has also made our workforce more attractive as it can be rapidly scaled up and down as the market demand for goods and services dictates. This is one of the reasons why our economy has been more resilient than say in France.

But less resilient than say in Germany.

Generally, the Tories want a more flexible workforce with less conditions to make it easier to flex, and Labour want more established and firmer workers rights. I believe in the UK we do OK and get a balance. Yes from times it swings to the right or the left, but overall, we maintain a sensible balance and this has been a foundation for our success in growing the economy recently.

UK industry currently back in recession.

The issue with the EU is that it is trying to legislate across 27/28 countries, with 27/28 different approaches to work / life balance etc. What works for one - say a 30 hour working week which is what French men want, will not work for the Brits, etc. Cultural differences and national attitudes come in to play and have a profound effect. Also, are we really saying that 500m people, across 27/28 countries, with varying degrees of prosperity and maturity of national infrastructure all want the same things?

Yes BUT the point of that is to have a Common Market, levelling the playing field. If we leave, and we start deliberately unevening the "playing field" we will not be allowed access to their market without tariffs - why would we? That's one of the main reasons for tariffs and pretty much the definition of the common market. You seem to be suggesting we should leave and change our rules but still get access to their market. But then it won't be OUR common market, it will be theirs and they will only let us trade if we obey their rules, which we will no longer have a say in setting. qv Norway.


And finally remember it's not a zero sum game, by increasing the wealth of a nation you increase the size of it as a market etc etc.. You also help folk. So all good.

Your entitled to your opinion but I don't think your argument, at least as portrayed here, is an accurate description of how the system works or is even working.

with respect, that's total rubbish!

Let's start with wealth of the nation, GDP may have risen but if you actually use GDP per head of population, guess what happens? yes, it's falling fast, and the only reason GDP is rising is because the population has shot up with migration, in real terms, we are some 10-12% worse off now than we were 10 years ago, the so-called economic miracle is basically bull - Germany is about to find this out the hard way, good luck with that!

the reason industry is in recession is beauce of EU lead green stupidity, giving up the highest energy prices on the planet, hence why Steelmaking is dieing, Aluminium smelting had already dies, and just about every other heavy industry is in deep trouble, but no problem, let's keep subsiding windmill and shutting down coal stations (at a time when Germany is building new coal stations!)

Back to democracy, the EU is fundamentally not democratic, name any of these and tell us all who voted for them?



to then complain about our first-past-the-post system as being undemocratic is laughable (may I remind you the country rejected AV a few short years ago).

so, just because you don;t like FPTP, you would rather be ruled from a far away unelected bureaucratic mammoth? please explain how this is any different to how the USSR was run? or are you suggesting that was a model society?

[campbell]

Phew. Just glad I voted 2 weeks ago. I've been able to concentrate on my family and on running my business instead.

Anyone watching the results show live? Or the spin off series on BBC3?!