Brexit.

[tut]

For those with FB, good laugh.

https://www.facebook.com/21266704579391 ... 595779058/

tut

[David]

One theory on what will happen

From the guardians comments section:

If Boris Johnson looked downbeat yesterday, that is because he realises that he has lost.

Perhaps many Brexiters do not realise it yet, but they have actually lost, and it is all down to one man: David Cameron.

With one fell swoop yesterday at 9:15 am, Cameron effectively annulled the referendum result, and simultaneously destroyed the political careers of Boris Johnson, Michael Gove and leading Brexiters who cost him so much anguish, not to mention his premiership.

How?

Throughout the campaign, Cameron had repeatedly said that a vote for leave would lead to triggering Article 50 straight away. Whether implicitly or explicitly, the image was clear: he would be giving that notice under Article 50 the morning after a vote to leave. Whether that was scaremongering or not is a bit moot now but, in the midst of the sentimental nautical references of his speech yesterday, he quietly abandoned that position and handed the responsibility over to his successor.

And as the day wore on, the enormity of that step started to sink in: the markets, Sterling, Scotland, the Irish border, the Gibraltar border, the frontier at Calais, the need to continue compliance with all EU regulations for a free market, re-issuing passports, Brits abroad, EU citizens in Britain, the mountain of legistlation to be torn up and rewritten ... the list grew and grew.

The referendum result is not binding. It is advisory. Parliament is not bound to commit itself in that same direction.

The Conservative party election that Cameron triggered will now have one question looming over it: will you, if elected as party leader, trigger the notice under Article 50?

Who will want to have the responsibility of all those ramifications and consequences on his/her head and shoulders?

Boris Johnson knew this yesterday, when he emerged subdued from his home and was even more subdued at the press conference. He has been out-maneouvered and check-mated.

If he runs for leadership of the party, and then fails to follow through on triggering Article 50, then he is finished. If he does not run and effectively abandons the field, then he is finished. If he runs, wins and pulls the UK out of the EU, then it will all be over - Scotland will break away, there will be upheaval in Ireland, a recession ... broken trade agreements. Then he is also finished. Boris Johnson knows all of this. When he acts like the dumb blond it is just that: an act.

The Brexit leaders now have a result that they cannot use. For them, leadership of the Tory party has become a poison chalice.

When Boris Johnson said there was no need to trigger Article 50 straight away, what he really meant to say was "never". When Michael Gove went on and on about "informal negotiations" ... why? why not the formal ones straight away? ... he also meant not triggering the formal departure. They both know what a formal demarche would mean: an irreversible step that neither of them is prepared to take.

All that remains is for someone to have the guts to stand up and say that Brexit is unachievable in reality without an enormous amount of pain and destruction, that cannot be borne. And David Cameron has put the onus of making that statement on the heads of the people who led the Brexit campaign.

[greyrigg]

Typical pish from the Guardian, the out of touch Islington lefties that have ruined the Labour Party and are largely to blame for the sorry mess we find ourselves in.


Sent from my iPhone using Tapatalk

[campbell]

Holy smoke. Tell it like it is, Malcolm, and don't hold back!

[Scuffers]

Holy smoke. Tell it like it is, Malcolm, and don't hold back!

he is right though.

Leftie press + BBC and Chan4 can't believe the result and are all reporting sh*t like this hard...

F**king traitors and simpletons the lot of them.

As for the youth voting IN, well, 20+ years of leftie indoctrination, this is the result, a generation of catastrophically gullible idiots that have the attention span of a 20 second sound-byte.

Had a 'discussion' with my mates 20 year old daughter yesterday, uni educated, well educated parents, etc etc. however, her total lack of basic understanding of what the EU actually is and the coverage of it is plain scary, yet she was passionately supporting it.

Took he farther and me about 30 mins to demonstrate just how ill-informed she actually was, and to her credit, she realised just how wrong her views were, she's devastated now and has started to question all sorts of assumptions she had from here time at Uni.

What I find scary is we live in an age where it's never been so easy to find information literally at the tip of your fingers (or keyboard), yet the youth of today are totally ill-equipped to use and interpret it.

[tut]

The Petition for another Referendum has now reached 3 million signatures. The difference in the vote was 1 million.
Main reasons given are "did not mean to/wanted to see what would happen/had no idea what it would result in afterwards.

And these make up a considerable percentage of the votes that were deciding our future. Impossible to implement, but a language/IQ test to give the right to vote would at least give some balance.

tut

[Scuffers]

The Petition for another Referendum has now reached 3 million signatures. The difference in the vote was 1 million.
Main reasons given are "did not mean to/wanted to see what would happen/had no idea what it would result in afterwards.

And these make up a considerable percentage of the votes that were deciding our future. Impossible to implement, but a language/IQ test to give the right to vote would at least give some balance.

tut

you do realise a lot of the 3 million are not even UK voters don;t you?

Somebody last night did a SQL query on the database and came back with two facts:

1) more than 50% of the 'votes' were from IP's outside the UK
2) some 30% of the 'votes' were all from a group of 11 IP addresses.

this makes it even more worthless than postal votes in a london borough.

[tut]

The whole idea is ridiculous which is why I posted it.

The fact that a Brexit result came as such a surprise to both the Pollsters and the bookies is purely down to putting a decision of that magnitude into the hands of a populace, a large percentage of whom have "NO FCUKING IDEA OF WHAT THEY ARE VOTING FOR."

QED

tut

[Scuffers]

The whole idea is ridiculous which is why I posted it.

The fact that a Brexit result came as such a surprise to both the Pollsters and the bookies is purely down to putting a decision of that magnitude into the hands of a populace, a large percentage of whom have "NO FCUKING IDEA OF WHAT THEY ARE VOTING FOR."

QED

tut

that's pretty disingenuous..

I would suggest that a higher % of the out voters know exactly what they voted for vs. remain voters

the demographics of the electorate show it's the pig-ignorant students that are the heavy romanians.

And yes, I know it's a sweeping statement, but honestly, the level of basic understanding of our student generation is terrifying, I blame years of labour/liberal education.

[tut]

It was not aimed at those that voted Brexit Simon, it was aimed at the large proportion of the population who in my opinion should not be allowed to vote.

However I do not have a solution to that, and as we live in a Democracy it is always going to be a vote for all. That vote has been made so should now be accepted, and the certain short term problems that are now going to occur should be dealt with in the hope that there will be benefits in the longer term, otherwise what was the point of it all?

For me the biggest question Cameron has to answer is why the hell he thought it was a good idea in the first place? Let the populace, some of whom have only recently evolved into walking upright and cooking their food, decide whether we should stay in the EU. I just wish the two John's were still doing their head to head, they would have had a ball.

tut

[r10crw]

It was not aimed at those that voted Brexit Simon, it was aimed at the large proportion of the population who in my opinion should not be allowed to vote.

However I do not have a solution to that, and as we live in a Democracy it is always going to be a vote for all. That vote has been made so should now be accepted, and the certain short term problems that are now going to occur should be dealt with in the hope that there will be benefits in the longer term, otherwise what was the point of it all?

For me the biggest question Cameron has to answer is why the hell he thought it was a good idea in the first place? Let the populace, some of whom have only recently evolved into walking upright and cooking their food, decide whether we should stay in the EU. I just wish the two John's were still doing their head to head, they would have had a ball.

tut

The "people" you mention Im guessing are poorer, live in rougher areas that have not boomed as the big city. Does it mean they are stupid and not allowed to vote? I suspect the demograph you are trying to isolate is not as large as you think. Simon is right that the 20 years of life experience students are a greater concern. I voted for my children and their future, not my own, as did my parents.

Just because your poor you shouldnt have less rights.

[woody]

Holy smoke. Tell it like it is, Malcolm, and don't hold back!

he is right though.

Leftie press + BBC and Chan4 can't believe the result and are all reporting sh*t like this hard...

F**king traitors and simpletons the lot of them.

As for the youth voting IN, well, 20+ years of leftie indoctrination, this is the result, a generation of catastrophically gullible idiots that have the attention span of a 20 second sound-byte.

Had a 'discussion' with my mates 20 year old daughter yesterday, uni educated, well educated parents, etc etc. however, her total lack of basic understanding of what the EU actually is and the coverage of it is plain scary, yet she was passionately supporting it.

Took he farther and me about 30 mins to demonstrate just how ill-informed she actually was, and to her credit, she realised just how wrong her views were, she's devastated now and has started to question all sorts of assumptions she had from here time at Uni.

What I find scary is we live in an age where it's never been so easy to find information literally at the tip of your fingers (or keyboard), yet the youth of today are totally ill-equipped to use and interpret it.

20 year olds know nothing shocker ? Assume you think this was different in the grand old days of yore when Great Britain was Great? I seriously doubt it.

I'm surprised it took as looking as 30 mins for 2 grown men to bully her (let's be honest, that's how it reads, that's how you come across) into their point of view.

In the same way don't you think what's pedaled by the Murdoch press and Mail could have at all influenced the thinking of the older generations?

And traitors? fcuk up. Traitor to some concept of a country that essentially means nothing. Simpletons there are on both sides.


Craig, I'd be stunned of many people voted against what they thought was best for the future.

[tut]

Certainly not aimed at the poor Craig if you are talking about people's worth, intelligence would be a better target. Fortunately I do not give a damn about anyone's colour or creed, it did not exist in the RM or Oman, and inherent intelligence does not mean having to be wealthy or educated to achieve it, although both of those will allow somebody to develop it to its potential.

However a class system exists and it is pointless trying to sweep it under the carpet. That is going to result in people voting different ways because of where they fit in that hierarchy. I just think that there is a hell of a difference between voting in a General Election and a one off EU Referendum as we have just had. The general populace is not equipped to make that sort of decision and I apply that across all Classes, but some will be better equipped than others. And I apply that to myself as if I can not be bothered to google on what I am voting for, why should I be allowed to vote?

tut

[thinfourth]

you do realise a lot of the 3 million are not even UK voters don;t you?

Somebody last night did a SQL query on the database and came back with two facts:

1) more than 50% of the 'votes' were from IP's outside the UK
2) some 30% of the 'votes' were all from a group of 11 IP addresses.

this makes it even more worthless than postal votes in a london borough.

That is up there with make sure you take a pen in the paranoid rantings stake

I call balls on that claim

As you need to enter a UK postcode

People are lazy and would enter a random postcode

So why does this map show a concentration of votes in the southeast and not an even spread as a random postcode would generate?

[vet111s]

Holy smoke. Tell it like it is, Malcolm, and don't hold back!

he is right though.

Leftie press + BBC and Chan4 can't believe the result and are all reporting sh*t like this hard...

F**king traitors and simpletons the lot of them.

As for the youth voting IN, well, 20+ years of leftie indoctrination, this is the result, a generation of catastrophically gullible idiots that have the attention span of a 20 second sound-byte.

Had a 'discussion' with my mates 20 year old daughter yesterday, uni educated, well educated parents, etc etc. however, her total lack of basic understanding of what the EU actually is and the coverage of it is plain scary, yet she was passionately supporting it.

Took he farther and me about 30 mins to demonstrate just how ill-informed she actually was, and to her credit, she realised just how wrong her views were, she's devastated now and has started to question all sorts of assumptions she had from here time at Uni.

What I find scary is we live in an age where it's never been so easy to find information literally at the tip of your fingers (or keyboard), yet the youth of today are totally ill-equipped to use and interpret it.

20 year olds know nothing shocker ? Assume you think this was different in the grand old days of yore when Great Britain was Great? I seriously doubt it.

I'm surprised it took as looking as 30 mins for 2 grown men to bully her (let's be honest, that's how it reads, that's how you come across) into their point of view.

In the same way don't you think what's pedaled by the Murdoch press and Mail could have at all influenced the thinking of the older generations?

And traitors? fcuk up. Traitor to some concept of a country that essentially means nothing. Simpletons there are on both sides.


Craig, I'd be stunned of many people voted against what they thought was best for the future.

There should be no "right" and "wrong" in a political discussion otherwise we should live in a dictatorship. Whether such a huge decision should be left to chance of a referendum is open to debate but the concept of our democracy is one man/woman one vote regardless of so-called class, education, which paper they read.
I voted remain for my kids but I recognise the result and now we need to try to make this work for our kids.
The intolerance of some on here of the differing views of others strikes of the fractured, intolerant society we're living in which has arguably led to the pledge of a referendum being made in the first place.