Brexit.

[PhilA]

but her plan is only RE indy for Scotland.
Opportunistic calculated sh*t stirring with end goal of being pushed out of UK, or continuing the WM hate.

So yeah,a plan, but imho only one for her long term indy at any cost ambitions.

[PhilA]

just spoke to a coworker.
SNP, Indy and Leave voter.

u know the deficit is £15bn? 9.7%?
"I dont believe it"

I said, surely if u want indy, and it was to occur, u have to accept the reality of the situation?

"Its propoganda".

[istoo]

but her plan is only RE indy for Scotland.
Opportunistic calculated sh*t stirring with end goal of being pushed out of UK, or continuing the WM hate.

So yeah,a plan, but imho only one for her long term indy at any cost ambitions.

and that is different from UKIP Brexit how?

SNP by name is very clear about what it is, why expect different?.

I am with Heselitine this morning, Boris and RGU prefect boy Gove made this us, they can get us out. Otherwise we are commenting on a plan that doesn't exist. Meantime lets see how many more capital investment projects are shelved as the UK is now an uncertain investment. That is going to hurt, O&G pinch being felt already. One client pulled the plug on all our projects after a 12 year working relationship, through no fluty of either party.

[istoo]

UK party politics first, before we start on Scotland, thats secondary as none of that will happen until Westminisiter readjusts itself, and it needs to be at a fundamental level. Neither main party was in a clear position, we have seen that in the last two decades, thus SNP, PC & UKIP rise, and to a degree the Greens.

Labour has struggled to find its current identity, and its really hurting from that now. The Tories appear to be holding it together now until they get a grip on their leave voters, are they tories or UKIPers? I guess they will be looking to pull in the UKIP support. But Farage not likely to accept this unless a new party forms, or he or UKIP have some engagement in negotiations or indeed in whatever ends up post Cameron. But at least they haven't fallen apart yet, I do believe that if the tories hit meltdown as well, and they are just as power hungry, our whole government could hit meltdown.

Boris, is a smart cookie, very sharp. But leadership and subsequent direction is needed. Until then i will reserve judgement on Scotland. At the moment it is slightly abnormal in that swathes of London, main centres of industry and investment voted inline with SNP, so some previously unthinkable alliances are happening. At the very least that side is preparing for what might be, like her or hate her, at least Sturgeon has a plan and a band of followers. The other path, thats much more unknown, that is most certainly due to the decision of how we leave the EU is not one made by the UK.

EU have to play hardball here, its their position to negotiate not the UKs. FT hinting along those lines this morning. Given uncertainty in the rest of Europe they will want to keep it tough as not to encourage further collapse of the lumbering beast. Britian would have had the EU chair in January 2017, but as it is now, Slovakia will be chairing Britains exit of the EU, which is decided but the remaining 27 countries. From all that i have read, unless anyone can inform me otherwise.

I have to say, the information has been hard to come by this time around. I like to read reviews of events to help make decisions. That seems to have disappeared as the world of internet has short sharp pieces of info which you have to digest and come up with other solutions. Press and authoritative bodies have spun wildly in every direction, control feels a little lost. Debate is good, we are going to need a lot more of it, we are here now, hypothesis for where we go is whats constantly running through my mind. Just pulls more distrust of the beurocrats and politicians for me, disillusioned with the whole process. We are generally a nation of good thinkers, i hope we can think our way out of this dip and on an up.

Lastly been having back and forth commentary from clients on variability of capital investment projects as the UK shifts from a stable to an uncertain risk. O&G which has been hard hit already might just take another massive kicking. No matter what happens next we are going down before we go up.

[thinfourth]

You can Say alot of things about "Queen Nicola" but in fairness to her she appears to be the only one that had a plan for the situation we find ourselves in.

True

But she had the same plan for everything

Blame the Tory party
Blame Westminster
Blame rich people

And the solution is

Independence


So the plan for being dragged out of the EU is the same action plan as finding a bird pooh on her car

[istoo]

You can Say alot of things about "Queen Nicola" but in fairness to her she appears to be the only one that had a plan for the situation we find ourselves in.

True

But she had the same plan for everything

Blame the Tory party
Blame Westminster
Blame rich people

And the solution is

Independence


So the plan for being dragged out of the EU is the same action plan as finding a bird pooh on her car

That is what the SNP is about. (except the bird poo bit... are seagull from westminster?)

[ikarl]

Even if Scotland had been 100% remain then leave would have still won by 251,179 votes so wouldn't have made any difference except that the remain camp would probably have been crying harder about the narrowness of the outcome.

As for the result I am not to fused either way. On the plus side we have removed another layer of bureaucrats from the decision tree. On the downside there is all the uncertainty that comes with a major political re-shuffle. History will judge if it was the right decision until then all we can do is keep calm and carry on

my maths and logic must be mucked up then.
as 1.6m R, 1m L, different national as 1.3m.

So needs a swing of 0.651m
so only 2.251m R 0.349m L?

Agreed.

This is the point Mikie - if 651k that voted leave had voted remain, that would have been enough to swing it to 'remain'

[neil]

So what we've learnt is the "fcuk you Sturgeon" vote may have won it for Leave

[istoo]

So what we've learnt is the "fcuk you Sturgeon" vote may have won it for Leave

or on a grander scale, the entire UK electorate protest voting has won it for Leave

and simplified further the entire country is disenfranchised with those who govern us.

[c8rkh]

I'm missing something here. Queen Nicola does not have a plan at all. She is an opportunist and she is hugely clever, you really do have to give her that last bit.
She was as wrong footed as anyone else by the Leave vote, however, she has acted quickly and she has taken some action. However, after her much vaunted "plan" to contact the EU to ensure Scotland's place was "saved", the outcome on Sunday was that she was told, sorry, you're out with rUK and will need to re-apply and all 27 remaining states will need to say "Yes". That was something else she wasn't expecting. So, help me understand again, what was/is the plan, other than the usual crying and whinging and blaming everyone else for everything?

[thinfourth]

what was/is the plan, other than the usual crying and whinging and blaming everyone else for everything?

To call anyone who disagrees with the SNP a quisling tory racist cap doffing scumbag who has no place in scotland

[thinfourth]

So what we've learnt is the "fcuk you Sturgeon" vote may have won it for Leave

Well remain were firmly in the lead until she appeared on the telly in a debate

So I think a good few voters in England voted leave to get rid of Scotland

[seriouslylotus]

Please forgive me for asking and I DO NOT wish to start a sh*t fight......
I have read with great interest this whole chat/forum thread.
One thing I don't understand about your first minister is
She wishes to have Scotland as an independent country, but demands that Scotland remains in the EU.
This I do not understand, can some one help me please??
Being part of the EU ultimately means you do as you are told, pay what you are told and become more and more part of Europe, so not independent really(IMHO)
Like I say not trying to be smart or cause trouble Im genuinely interested

[thinfourth]

Please forgive me for asking and I DO NOT wish to start a sh*t fight......
I have read with great interest this whole chat/forum thread.
One thing I don't understand about your first minister is
She wishes to have Scotland as an independent country, but demands that Scotland remains in the EU.
This I do not understand, can some one help me please??
Being part of the EU ultimately means you do as you are told, pay what you are told and become more and more part of Europe, so not independent really(IMHO)
Like I say not trying to be smart or cause trouble Im genuinely interested

Logic <----------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------->SNP arguments

[PhilA]

completely agree seriouslylotus - thats the conundrum that is SNP indy at any cost.

plan? hammer difference between Scotland and England all the time, even if it makes no sense.