Has anybody changed their vote about independence??

[campbell]

That's fair enough Mark.

We're not intending to leave. And I agree the Pentlands (and other!) hills will still look very nice (apart from the wind turbines our govt are giddily signing off).

I'm just doing my homework. And keeping my antennae up.

Cheers

Campbell

[ryallm]

Politics, yeah, whatever . Don't get me started on wind turbines though!

[Rosssco]

An "interesting" article on Sturgeon's speech last weekend.

Unsurprisingly, I agree with the general sentiment and contradiction within the Nationalist message on inclusivity.

https://theweeflea.com/2017/03/22/nicol ... -scotland/

[thinfourth]

Politics, yeah, whatever . Don't get me started on wind turbines though!

Stop talking scotland down

[istoo]

My mother is a Yorkshire lass, lived in the highlands since she was 23, she is very much an SNP supporter. I haven't seen that sentiment either here or further north. If anything most of those who those who sold up and resettled in the highlands came for the place. Not the politics. Incidentally I know a few senior English Tories and high ranking civil servants one of whom are considering moving as they feel alienated. Mainly for above reasons.

When I look out the scenery it will still be the same beautiful views.

There is no ideal world, there will be varying compromises for all.

Is there a chance we can have a there way vote iE yes, no and devo max.


Sent from my iPhone using Tapatalk

[c8rkh]

I find it really quite bizarre that anyone would consider leaving Scotland because of another referendum vote. I am sanguine about the whole thing. Let's just say Scotland had voted to leave last time around - what difference would it have made to me or my family? A bit of a marginal difference in corporation or personal tax, perhaps, other than that, didly squat. Scotland is a great place to live - fantastic scenery, brilliant for outdoor sports, vibrant music and cultural scene - you name it. None of that will change a whole lot in or out of the UK or in or out of the EU. If you are well off and living in a liberal democracy the truth is that what the politicians do has only very limited real effect on your daily life. Chill and focus on the people around you and the choices you make about your own life - far, far more important than all the political sh*t!

You obviously have not been on the receiving end of racist and bigoted bile thrown at you for being selfish enough to move to Scotland for all the reasons you outline above, and then despite investing 22 years of your life, fully contributing both fiscally, through having children born here, and through your community involvement only to be told in colourful language you are not meant to be here! There are pockets of Scotland where the nationalistic fervor can be quite intense, even in small but flourishing places like Dunkeld and Birnam where i have friends who now hate living there due to the comments and stuff that they hear.

I also challenge your assumption that nothing would have changed. I believe as we were about to enter an Independent state if Indyref1 was YES we would now be seeing a huge impact on our economy through the uncertainty around our EU membership (we never did get a rel, honest, viable answer on that and we certainly did not and do not meet fiscal criteria for entry).

Let's just ignore the politics and the politicians and go dancing around the trees in the country singing "everything will be OK" and "oh what a beautiful day". I'm not sure it will work, but at least it's a strategy which is more than we had and have for Independence, and for Brexit, so has to be a good thing.

[ryallm]

I find it really quite bizarre that anyone would consider leaving Scotland because of another referendum vote. I am sanguine about the whole thing. Let's just say Scotland had voted to leave last time around - what difference would it have made to me or my family? A bit of a marginal difference in corporation or personal tax, perhaps, other than that, didly squat. Scotland is a great place to live - fantastic scenery, brilliant for outdoor sports, vibrant music and cultural scene - you name it. None of that will change a whole lot in or out of the UK or in or out of the EU. If you are well off and living in a liberal democracy the truth is that what the politicians do has only very limited real effect on your daily life. Chill and focus on the people around you and the choices you make about your own life - far, far more important than all the political sh*t!

You obviously have not been on the receiving end of racist and bigoted bile thrown at you for being selfish enough to move to Scotland for all the reasons you outline above, and then despite investing 22 years of your life, fully contributing both fiscally, through having children born here, and through your community involvement only to be told in colourful language you are not meant to be here! There are pockets of Scotland where the nationalistic fervor can be quite intense, even in small but flourishing places like Dunkeld and Birnam where i have friends who now hate living there due to the comments and stuff that they hear.

I also challenge your assumption that nothing would have changed. I believe as we were about to enter an Independent state if Indyref1 was YES we would now be seeing a huge impact on our economy through the uncertainty around our EU membership (we never did get a rel, honest, viable answer on that and we certainly did not and do not meet fiscal criteria for entry).

Let's just ignore the politics and the politicians and go dancing around the trees in the country singing "everything will be OK" and "oh what a beautiful day". I'm not sure it will work, but at least it's a strategy which is more than we had and have for Independence, and for Brexit, so has to be a good thing.

I didn't say nothing would change, or that the change isn't important. Clearly an awful lot would change. My point is that is that a lot of people get very worked up about these things when if they looked at it coldly and without emotion it would be apparent that it doesn't actually impact their daily lives in a big way. We all have far, far more control over our own lives than any politician has. Many people would be a lot happier and less angry and if they put themselves on a news diet.

BTW my English wife has never, ever experienced any anti English sentiment in 20 years of living in Scotland, in spite of a very obvious Yorkshire accent. Clearly there are some anti-English muppets out there but they are not the norm. I think there is a bigger cultural divide between the north and south east of England than there is between the north of England and Scotland.

[campbell]

We all have different experiences. That's allowed.

Anyway.

Local Elections in 6 weeks. USE YOUR VOTES. All of them!

[thinfourth]

BTW my English wife has never, ever experienced any anti English sentiment in 20 years of living in Scotland, in spite of a very obvious Yorkshire accent. Clearly there are some anti-English muppets out there but they are not the norm. I think there is a bigger cultural divide between the north and south east of England than there is between the north of England and Scotland.

I was born here

I don't speak with a scottish accent as i have lived all over the place

I have been told to fcuk off back to england you english cnut


But i think it is not purely an anti english feeling

It is more a anti tory movement

Anyone who dares to make something of themselves is utterly hated by the SNP drones.


But whatever it is Scotland is turning into a divided country and I want to leave

[campbell]

Really sorry to hear that Paul.

Lisa was just talking about your classic-coloured Se7en yesterday too

[jason]

Reluctant to post in this thread but...

Sadly Paul's experiences and emotions aren't unique. I'm English (lived here 16 years, our son was born here), but at the time of IndyRef (people I had considered to be) friends told me English residents shouldn't have a vote, and completely refused to discuss the topic further since "it has nothing to do with you lot".

It's semantics (or maybe it isn't?!), but much of the politicians' and media's language doesn't help. Phrases like "the will of the Scottish people" are often used rather than more accurate and inclusive terms. I understand why Nationalists say it, but it can't help 'outsiders' feel included or valued.

It's pleasing to see generally respectful discussion here.

[Corranga]

BTW my English wife has never, ever experienced any anti English sentiment in 20 years of living in Scotland, in spite of a very obvious Yorkshire accent. Clearly there are some anti-English muppets out there but they are not the norm. I think there is a bigger cultural divide between the north and south east of England than there is between the north of England and Scotland.

You've been very lucky. My wife moved up to Scotland 16 or so years ago to study. Since then, her mum, and 2 brothers (1 of uni age at the time, and the other still in primary school) moved up.

The 2 Uni siblings were ok, but then Uni is where diversity exists more than anywhere else (certainly in Dundee.)
The youngest was picked on at school for being English, but was bigger than the others, so it didn't make that much of an effect.
Her mum was picked / segregated at work. Stupid things, comments about Scotland vs. England rugby or football matches that she couldn't care less about - but colleagues would bring up. Assumptions that English means anti independence, and Royalist etc.
You may call it banter perhaps - except that unwanted banter is just bullying.

My own brother (who is a front line activist style pro independence / anti Tory who attends Yes rallies etc) says things to my wife, which I genuinely believe he thinks are nice things, but are really racist. He talks about ending English rule, and how the English don't have a place in Scotland, then tells her that she is ok as she is one of us now anyway

I had a Turkish colleague at work who moved back to Turkey because his boy was being heavily bullied at School.

I remember playing in the playground in Primary school. There was an English kid that everyone picked on, making fun of his accent and even pointing at others, calling them English like it was a swear word and then hitting 'English' kids (who weren't English, but were being branded like it was a disease.
Sturgeon is doing exactly this now, except she uses the word Tory.
The difference is that we were kids, highly influential, and not really understanding what we wee doing, probably spurred on by a history class, or some off the cuff comment by an anti-English dad or something. The others are supposed to be the leaders of this country. The elite that we trust with our money, and our futures, and that of our children.
I'm not a Tory, but I am offended that my country is so noninclusive. I am ashamed that my country gives the appearance of including others, refugees, EU residents etc. but is so divisive towards it's own people. I've also noticed and don't like thew way terms like "the will of the Scottish people" are used. It doesn't help to promote

The reality is that Scotland isn't a very diverse country. Scotland is a racist country, though not in a UKIP way. I think in a lot of cases, it's simply ignorance. But that excuse isn't too valid in today's world.

[istoo]

Acht, not pleasant reading for those getting the sh*t end. I really don't like hearing the negativity, but if that is what is being experienced, genuinely disgusted to hear that. That is the wrong side of nationalism, in any context. The division echoes throughout all on this thread regardless of if you are for or against. Unfortunately division is not a problem unique to Scotland, England and NI aren't without their deep problems at the moment.

Many people would be a lot happier and less angry and if they put themselves on a news diet.

here here! we are entering a new age of propaganda, which has become even more difficult to decipher. Moreso where is the negativity coming from? Echo chambers and control of information is shifting to a new set of hands.

And this 'will of the people' thing, that does drive me nuts, it is only the will of who won (indyref1 or brexit or whatever)... what about everyone else?

Fair point campbell, local elections will give a bit of flavour for public opinion. However, i can not see New Labour regaining seats, how the remainder of the votes are divvied up will be where the interest lies.

Lastly, slightly OT, who decided it was called BREXIT? why not BREMAIN? The power of suggestion...

[thinfourth]

I belive there is no right side to nationalism

It is a dogma that teaches you to hate people you have never met and be proud in things you never did.

[campbell]

The local Elections are often overlooked.

But they are a prime opportunity to get voices heard.

Just because they don't elect Central govt, doesn't make them any less valuable.

In fact. They are more important in some ways because they relate to leaders who will decide or influence the local decisions and services that actually have more immediate or direct impact on citizens.

I am biased of course, in the sense that I'm involved in the project that will run all the counts electronically. But I'm not paid-per-vote (if only!).

It just matters to me that people don't squander their opportunity to influence the local administrations.

And the results of the local Elections could send a hell of a message to the parties in central govt.

Lesson ends.

But please do use your vote on 4th May

And tell your friends too.