My Ombudsman case

[DJ]

Evening all.

A little story. I took out a case with The Motor Ombudsman (TMO) and last week I was finally repaid by the garage I raised a case against. The culmination of 2 years! It was for a paltry £120 and the sort of thing I would normally just walk away from, but at the time the attitude of the mainstream garage left me surprised and by then I had found out so much info that proved they were wrong, the fact they maintained their position became highly amusing but also quite alarming if this has happened to others and gone undetected. So after about 8 weeks of the garage not returning phone calls and dragging it out without resolution, I filled in a TMO form; it was very easy - 2 pages - to outline the issue, my investigation and attached a couple of photos and sent it off.

Whilst TMO found in my favour (twice! ... explained later) I would struggle to recommend this route for anyone pursuing a decent sized claim or looking for a quick recovery. TMO are woefully inefficient and the garage/dealer was not just slow but also just stopped communicating with them as soon as it was initially found in my favour. It became more a pursuit of curiosity and amusement so, when I remembered, I would chase TMO for an update which, when I did get a reply, just kept moving out with their estimation date.
I initially received the finding in my favour after just over a year from raising. The garage then didn't pay me and stopped all communication with TMO. TMO gave them a long time and many chances - too many imo - but still nothing and eventually I was told it had to go to an Ombudsman (this confused me as that's where I thought I was, but apparently initial finding is by an Adjudicator, not an Ombudsman) so the process effectively starts again from scratch. It needs the 2nd review by an Ombudsman so that if the garage don't comply again they can then escalate to their compliance area . It seems to be a hugely bureaucratic, inefficient machine. In between this my adjudicator left TMO and my case sat for almost 6 months awaiting re-allocation. Eventually, after about another 6 months one re-allocated, the Ombudsman found in my favour too. After being instructed again to pay or TMO would revert to taking compliance action, the garage got in touch about a month later to pay my claim.
If anyone else is thinking of going down the route of the TMO I've probably learned a few things along my journey. To be fair, they got there in the end and their two findings reports were quite detailed and well summarised. It was for a sum I was barely interested in so really feel for those with cases that might run to many £k's if my simple little case was dragged over 2 years.

[campbell]

Wow. Thanks for sharing!

Paging @pete shuttleworth

[scott_e]

That is incredible What amazes me is how often you see experts on the BBC consistently advising consumers to escalate a dispute with the appropriate ombudsman. Your case was clearly black and white, many cases wont be I am sure. Sounds like a complete farce for most disputes in reality. Lack of funding for this body I am guessing is an issue ? or does the Motor industry self police and typically does want to rock the boat ? .... something is wrong with the process whatever it maybe.

[DJ]

June 25, 2018 – I am driving to work in my ’63 plate MINI Cooper S and pull out to overtake a lorry. Mid overtake the amber MIL light comes on. A mile or so later the car starts going into limp mode. Luckily, I am about 2 miles from Longniddry garage where I know the owner – he did all my Lotus MOTs and used to be a lurker on here as is an ex Evora owner. He has since retired and sold up. Michael clears the fault for me to try again but a mile down the road it is back and in limp mode. I turn around and leave the car with him.

When I pick the car up at night he tells me the OBD reader indicated a fault in bank 2 and after checking ignition coil he replaced the plugs which cured the fault. He kept the removed plugs to show me as they were significantly worn. This was the issue – the car had been serviced at Peter Vardy MINI, Edinburgh two months earlier and after checking my invoice once I got home, it stated the plugs had all been replaced at the service and I was invoiced as such.

Regarding the plugs removed:

- the tip/firing point of the plugs were heavily worn down - the likely cause of the fail. These are supposed to last up to 60,000 km's according to manufacturer. Note my car had completed c.40,000 miles (64,000 kms at time of breakdown).

- the metal hook part above the plug opposite the tip had visual signs of wear, particularly around the edges indicating long term use

- the plug was quite heavily sooted. The porcelain part around the firing tip was very discoloured

- there was a very prominent brown heat ring at the base of the main porcelain part which forms over time

- the writing on the porcelain should be light blue but is old and faded and more of a grey colour.

To me, the plugs didn’t resemble ones that were fitted only 2 months prior and had done just c.1200 miles. When getting nowhere with the After Sales Manager I managed to speak to the service dept directly. The guy sends me a pic through of the plug they fit ..... but it looks totally different! – his pic shows one with 3 blue hoops on the porcelain versus no such hoops on the plugs in my car and a different code!
I researched the code of the failed plug removed from my Mini – the one PV claim they fitted at the service - code 6SP2. I couldn’t easily find it from part websites, spark plug sites or Mini forums. I did find that this code was superseded by code 6SPP2-1, which was the plug in the picture PV sent claiming they had fitted to my car. Further research indicated the recommended plug code changed sometime around end 2015/early 2016, again indicating the plug in my car was old.
Whilst obvious it was worn, to get another opinion that I could note on the TMO form I took the removed plugs to another local independent garage. Their view was the same as Longniddry - there is significant wear on the tip and electrode and the overall condition of the plug, particularly the thick brown heat ring is not representative of one that has been fitted for 2 months/1200 miles.
My last part of research was I contacted Federal Mogul, who own Champion plugs, based in the Netherlands. Got a really helpful guy in their customer services. Firstly, they informed me that a new plug failure is virtually unheard of. They tell me there is little to nothing in a plug to fail unless the main porcelain is broken. Failure only comes when a plug is worn and at the end of its life. They too struggled with the code saying it was old. They said that they could only provide limited information as that code was 'shielded' which may indicate it is supplied as an OEM to BMW as part of manufacture only and not to the secondary market for replacement. FM's view was also the plug was old and not representative of c.1200 miles
Finally, after 8 weeks had passed since the new plugs were fitted by Longniddry, I removed the plug from bank 2 to inspect it and compare it to the failed plug, as it had now been in for more or less the same time as the failed plug that PV said they fitted at service. I'll go onto tapatalk and load up the comparison pics of the removed plugs that PV claim were fitted a few weeks earlier versus the ones fitted after similar claimed time/mileage by my local garage.

So I had the old, worn looking plugs in my hand, which alone should have been enough, the event of my car breaking down, the bill from the garage proving replacement plugs fixed the issue, the views of 2 independent garages, a code on the plug that no longer exists and was at least 3 years past recommended fitment, the possibility the code of the plugs in my car weren't even available to PV to fit, a photo supplied by PV themselves stating this is what they fitted but didn’t match what was in my car and communications from Federal Mogul stating this was an old, ‘shielded’ code and possibly OEM fitment only, with FM asking to see the pics of the claimed failed (new) plug as it was virtually unheard of, subsequently also being of the view these were not plugs that had been fitted for 2 months.

[DJ]

Firstly, the image sent by PV of what service dept said they fitted to my car



Next, a few pics of the plug taken out my car that PV said was fitted 2 months earlier (Champion) alongside the replacement plugs (NGK) fitted by Longniddry that had been in the car for a similar length of time/mileage.

[campbell]

Night and day. I’m not surprised you didn’t give up on this wee crusade. Well done, sir

[Evoman]

Nice effort. I like to see issues like this chased to the end as a matter of principle it is important otherwise these practices become ingrained and continue to be practised as the norm. The process however being so drawn out would stop many people continuing which does raise questions why it is set up that way. Nevertheless awesome effort!

[C7Steve]

Nice effort. I like to see issues like this chased to the end as a matter of principle it is important otherwise these practices become ingrained and continue to be practised as the norm. The process however being so drawn out would stop many people continuing which does raise questions why it is set up that way. Nevertheless awesome effort!

What he said.

Steve.

[Dark]

Doh... after the first post I was expecting some juicy Porsche main dealer saga!

[woody]

Interesting.

When our last mini went from being serviced under Mini TLC to a trusted friend and garage, the latter reported back it was on the original plugs at 60k+ miles and the filters were ancient.

[rawsco]

During my debacle, I was told to avoid the TMO like the plague. They have no teeth in ruling in any arbitration purely a voluntary code, there was some silly stat I found that basically said most garages just ignore rulings against then and shut down coms.

The vindication when it goes your way is nice.

[DJ]

The investigation part was actually quite enjoyable - a bit like when you decide to buy a new car; half the fun is the research. It was dealing with PV initially and slowness of TMO that quickly became tiresome, but was keen to see it through.

I guess if my car hadn't had a Mil come on I might never had known - which potentially sounds like Woody's experience. I managed to put my case forward that I was convinced the evidence showed my plugs hadn't been replaced but I was invoiced as such and both the TMO Adjudicator and the TMO Ombudsman upheld my complaint. Does make you wonder if this was a one-off with this garage? You would like to think so. Car is now past its 5 year warranty period it and has been serviced locally since so thankfully I won't be having any future dealings with PV MINI Edinburgh.

[Corranga]

I wonder if setting up a social media account and tagging PV Mini with posts every couple of weeks would have led to a quicker resolution..

I've been lucky enough to dodge main dealers for almost all of my car owning life, mainly due to owning older stuff bought privately, but our current Cooper S was bought approved used from John Clark Abs. From the get go, the experience seemed fine.
3,000 miles later, the car needed brake pads all round. I've never bought a car that has needed a full set of brake pads after 3k miles. We called them and were told that the approved used check basically looks for pads to be over 3mm or something, which is coincidentally, when the amber light comes on in a Mini. Oddly enough, no amber light ever appeared in our Mini, it may have been in the service menu, but we didn't check (or know to check) this in the first 3 months. Why would we, it was approved used.
Either way, if this is what approved used means, I'll stick to buying private in future..

Chris

[Stevoraith]

Not surprised that this refers to Peter Vardy. They seem like a shower of shady characters in my experience.

My cousin had his BMW in there a few years back for a replacement engine (drove through a bigger puddle than he thought it was...).
The car had been off the road for about three months by the time the engine was fitted and when it was complete they phoned him and said that his brakes were 'rusty' and discs and pads needed replaced all round.

Not being a 'car guy' he phoned me and asked if the price seemed reasonable.
It seemed excessive but I told him that they were probably just rusty from being sat around so long.
He phoned them back and aksed them to take it for a drive and lo and behold they then agreed that none of the brakes needed replaced, they were just rusty from sitting around so long.

Presumbaly they were hoping he wouldn't query it and just pay them £1k+ for new discs and pads all round.

Glad you got them bang to rights

[111Robin]

Main dealers in my experience are only interested in the quick turnaround profit when it comes to servicing. My dad had his own one man garage business for 30 odd years and we had so many customers coming to us with three year old cars, full dealer service history, and the wheels were seized on the hubs, never been off, calipers seized, handbrake mechanisms seized. A "service" to them was just a quick oi/filter change, stamp up the book, wash and vacuum the car, keep the customer happy. Not worth the paper it was written on. He used to take around three hours to do a proper service and still cost less than the main dealer. Unfortunately "main dealer service history" is the be all and end all for some folk when it comes to buying a car.