....than a fast FWD car?
Not in terms of seconds and tenths of a second, but driver experience.
As you may know, I drive an almost standard Civic Type R (adjustable damping coilovers is only mod to-date).
How much better is an Elise/Exige round a track......
Better is probably not the word, but it's certainly different.
You do have to readjust your driving style and there's more scope for getting it wrong, but get it in the sweetspot and you can pivot the car at will on the throttle and do things that really make you feel like a DRIVING GOD!
The issue with FWD is that physics dictates that with even the best set up car (like yours) the front tyres are still trying to do two jobs (steering and power) where splitting them to different ends of the car means that the tyres can use more of their grip potential.
Simple terms, give it a try. You may find you hate RWD, but you may also find that the additional fun you can have gives yo a totally new view on quick driving....
You do have to readjust your driving style and there's more scope for getting it wrong, but get it in the sweetspot and you can pivot the car at will on the throttle and do things that really make you feel like a DRIVING GOD!
The issue with FWD is that physics dictates that with even the best set up car (like yours) the front tyres are still trying to do two jobs (steering and power) where splitting them to different ends of the car means that the tyres can use more of their grip potential.
Simple terms, give it a try. You may find you hate RWD, but you may also find that the additional fun you can have gives yo a totally new view on quick driving....
2010 Honda VFR1200F
1990 Honda VFR400 NC30
2000 Honda VTR1000 SP1
2000 Kawasaki ZX-7R
1990 Honda VFR400 NC30
2000 Honda VTR1000 SP1
2000 Kawasaki ZX-7R
As you know I have done around 12 trackdays in my CTR and so far 9 in the Exige so I hope I can give you a good indication.
The CTR is a very good car, I thoroughly enjoyed the 3 years I had it. Its also a very competent track car, will take stacks of abuse and drive you home again.
What I found is that after a few track days you found its limits very quickly, its an easy and predictable to learn to drive fast around a track. After around 4 track days I was looking at ways of making of changing it as I was starting to get bored with it. I remember being on track with Gav's modified CTR and decided thats what I had to do. I even bought his adjustable suspension off him and was looking at a big brake upgrade but in the end it was clear that no amount of tinkering was going to achieve what I wanted which was starting to take the direction of improved handling and RWD.
To be honest it really is night and day between the two cars on track, especially with semi slick tyres.
My first trackday in the Exige I was around 4-5 seconds off the pace of Jamies Exige, looking back I was still driving it at CTR speeds on corners. Straight line speed isn’t much different so you are making 5 seconds per lap just on the corners over the CTR.
It took 2 or 3 trackdays just to get towards a more respectable laptime and even then I was seconds off the pace of folk like Ali. With a few more days under my belt that gap is slowly coming down, but that’s part of the big difference. After 9 trackdays there isn’t even a single hint of bordom setting in and I have no intention of modding the car as yet because I know its still got a hell of a lot of laptime to find as standard.
And once you find the very limit of track times you can always take advantage of the RWD to provide some sideways amusement, the CTR’s understeer could get a bit dreary at times. I remember coming round the hairpin on full lock understeer once, opposite lock is far more fun and a lot more difficult to get right than it looks.
As I said the CTR is a great car, but it really is a world away from the Exige on track. Its just so much more enjoyable. the feedback through the steering wheel is superb, you feel much more a part of the car, whereas you always felt a bit remote in the CTR. Things like heal n toe are far easier to practice and get right in the Exige, once you start to include that plus trail braking combined with the RWD characteristics it adds a whole new element to trackdays.
The CTR is a very good car, I thoroughly enjoyed the 3 years I had it. Its also a very competent track car, will take stacks of abuse and drive you home again.
What I found is that after a few track days you found its limits very quickly, its an easy and predictable to learn to drive fast around a track. After around 4 track days I was looking at ways of making of changing it as I was starting to get bored with it. I remember being on track with Gav's modified CTR and decided thats what I had to do. I even bought his adjustable suspension off him and was looking at a big brake upgrade but in the end it was clear that no amount of tinkering was going to achieve what I wanted which was starting to take the direction of improved handling and RWD.
To be honest it really is night and day between the two cars on track, especially with semi slick tyres.
My first trackday in the Exige I was around 4-5 seconds off the pace of Jamies Exige, looking back I was still driving it at CTR speeds on corners. Straight line speed isn’t much different so you are making 5 seconds per lap just on the corners over the CTR.
It took 2 or 3 trackdays just to get towards a more respectable laptime and even then I was seconds off the pace of folk like Ali. With a few more days under my belt that gap is slowly coming down, but that’s part of the big difference. After 9 trackdays there isn’t even a single hint of bordom setting in and I have no intention of modding the car as yet because I know its still got a hell of a lot of laptime to find as standard.
And once you find the very limit of track times you can always take advantage of the RWD to provide some sideways amusement, the CTR’s understeer could get a bit dreary at times. I remember coming round the hairpin on full lock understeer once, opposite lock is far more fun and a lot more difficult to get right than it looks.
As I said the CTR is a great car, but it really is a world away from the Exige on track. Its just so much more enjoyable. the feedback through the steering wheel is superb, you feel much more a part of the car, whereas you always felt a bit remote in the CTR. Things like heal n toe are far easier to practice and get right in the Exige, once you start to include that plus trail braking combined with the RWD characteristics it adds a whole new element to trackdays.
I reckon you could shave a few seconds by not having the hangover Kenny every time i see you at Knockers!
I totally agree, having owned a CTR and having done a good few trackdays in it, and then admitedly only doing one in the VX, but it was night and day, and although papping it the hour and the day before hand, it really was so different, yet so much more enjoyable.... that was until i cooked my brake fluid going into duffus and the brake pedal hit the floor like the clutch pedal!
That is why i am determind to get back into a Loti, and preferably one that is quick, one i wont get bored with and still have lots to learn!
Dave
I totally agree, having owned a CTR and having done a good few trackdays in it, and then admitedly only doing one in the VX, but it was night and day, and although papping it the hour and the day before hand, it really was so different, yet so much more enjoyable.... that was until i cooked my brake fluid going into duffus and the brake pedal hit the floor like the clutch pedal!
That is why i am determind to get back into a Loti, and preferably one that is quick, one i wont get bored with and still have lots to learn!
Dave
I really don't to be honest Ed. The reason I asked the question at the top of this thread is I am close to doing the Quaife thing, as it'll solve the main problem of the CTR....exit understeer under acceleration.I think you know already which one makes sense!
I test drove a VX220T and an S2 (modified to 160bhp with 'PTP'??) a year ago, and neither of them had that "you want me" effect.
As Shug says, I'd need to drive a Lotus on track to see if it is what I want, as road tests aren't respresentative (the way I drive on road c/w track).
Anyone know which circuits do an Elise/Exige driving 'experience'?
Last edited by Rory on Wed Nov 29, 2006 5:28 pm, edited 1 time in total.
I think there is only one obvious choice, there is only so much you can do with FWD modding it might make a difference but two trackdays later and you will be looking for another change.
That just doesnt happen with RWD, just playing around with tyre pressure had more effect on my Exige than any mod done to the CTR. The learning curve is huge and very rewarding when you start to get used to the car.
I think some car training and another year at least hopefully with a variety of track done and I reckon I might start thinking about modding but at the moment I still have loads to learn as standard.
As for option 3, forget it. You know fine well once you get into trackdays thats you hooked for life
That just doesnt happen with RWD, just playing around with tyre pressure had more effect on my Exige than any mod done to the CTR. The learning curve is huge and very rewarding when you start to get used to the car.
I think some car training and another year at least hopefully with a variety of track done and I reckon I might start thinking about modding but at the moment I still have loads to learn as standard.
As for option 3, forget it. You know fine well once you get into trackdays thats you hooked for life