Lack of stopping power?

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Rich H
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Lack of stopping power?

Post by Rich H » Tue Dec 06, 2005 2:13 pm

Seeing sa it's nice and sunny I have just been out 'playing' down to Crail and back and I have discovered (After getting Walshy's DVD for my b'day!) That I don't seem to be able to lock up the wheels... (Not on the road obviously that would be irresponsible! :D ) Seems a bit odd seeing as it's still a bit wet.

Could it be:

a. Me continuing to drive like a girl? :oops:
b. Cack EBC Green Stuff pads and doubtless EBC disks?
c. Ancient rubber brake lines?
d. Dodgey fluid? (Supposedly done 4 months ago)
e. All of the above?

Any thoughts?

Been quoted about £130 all in for SS bradd brake lines by Falklands, but would probably add a braided clutch line for piece of mind while they are in there (Still got the red plastic washer hose type). Or is it DIY able?
Cheers
Rich
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Shug
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Post by Shug » Tue Dec 06, 2005 2:23 pm

Aye, change the clutch hose before summer kicks in. Nothing quite like the first time it won't go into third on the approach to Duffus....

As for braking - get it checked immediately - you didn't look the weedy type when I met you, so you should have no problem locking them up. Remember, there's no servo though, so effort is much higher than the average saloon.

Check the discs aren't too worn, pads aren't glazed - shouldn't really be the hoses - they are fine until the fluid is near boiling point. If the fluid was done recently, were they bled properly? To do it right, you have to take the front calipers off and invert them, to get the last wee bubble out.

http://www.elise-faq.info/content/brakes/index.php

Have a read of that page... Should cover almost anything it could be.
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Rich H
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Post by Rich H » Tue Dec 06, 2005 2:33 pm

Thanks Shug,

I'll check that they have been bled (Bleeded?) properly, I was told all te fluids were done when I bought it from a specialist of apparently dubious rep...

As for brake pedal pressure I was concerned about bending/snapping the pedal! Bit odd... The front disks are not far off new about 4 months and 5000 miles and the pads similar, rears appear to be 6k miles old / 18 months, but now I'm looking I can't find anything about the fluid being changed.... Buggers! The only written record is 1998 at B&C by the looks of things!

I think that may be a good place to start!

Cheers

Rich
1994 Lotus Esprit S4 - Work in progress
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gordon
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Post by gordon » Tue Dec 06, 2005 2:38 pm

i'm on EBC greenstuff pads and std disks and 5.1 fluid. Dont beleive the crap you read on SELCOK. They're good pads for road and track. Wear out a bit quick compared to others on the track, i got about 5 KH trackdays out a set, but they're cheap enough and dont make much dust which is a bonus. Try braking a few times to get some heat in them, then hit the pedal hard. Mine lock on the cold greasy road no probs. SS hoses will give a bit more feel thru the pedal and make it a bit harder. But on your std setup the brakes should be good enough to outbrake the vast majority of cars.

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Shug
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Post by Shug » Tue Dec 06, 2005 2:41 pm

RICHARDHUMBLE wrote: As for brake pedal pressure I was concerned about bending/snapping the pedal!
Have a look at how they are constructed - wouldn't worry about bending it - you could probably lift the car on one of those gorgeous extrusions.... :lol:
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Rich H
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Post by Rich H » Tue Dec 06, 2005 2:45 pm

I was hoping that they would be strong, but they look so expensive! And why hide something so carefully designed in the most alkward place possiblethen use the cheapest switchgear possible? :roll:


Rich
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Rich H
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Post by Rich H » Tue Dec 06, 2005 2:52 pm

What colour is brake fluid supposed to be? Mine is a dirty straw/brown and it looks like there is some sort of black dust in the filter! I think I may have found the problem..... Will try and find my camera
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Rich H
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Post by Rich H » Tue Dec 06, 2005 3:06 pm

Bit of a pap pic but the flash won't charge cos the batterys flat!
You can see the sludge around the filter edge
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mckeann
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Post by mckeann » Tue Dec 06, 2005 3:08 pm

mines was black when i flushed it. but i could still lock the wheels though, even in the dry, it just needed a much longer pedal travel.


maybe worth getting someone else to have a play and give a second opinion

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Shug
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Post by Shug » Tue Dec 06, 2005 3:11 pm

Change it anyway - no question. Then look at discs (thickness - mins should be in that FAQ page I posted) and take the pads out and scour them on some rough sandpaper, to take off any glazing.

Then if you have issues, there is something altogether more nasty...
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Rich H
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Post by Rich H » Tue Dec 06, 2005 3:22 pm

Cheers guys,

I'll have a poke about tomorrow as it's almost time for w*rk!
:evil:

New fluid and a bleed will help I'm sure (And I'll try to stop driving like a girl!) How does it rate on the haynes manual level of technical (in)competence?

I might just get the SS hoses and let falkland do it... (Lazy and it's cold out! :oops: )

TTFN
Rich

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Shug
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Post by Shug » Tue Dec 06, 2005 3:24 pm

Deffo an option in this bloody weather.... :lol:

Do it soon though... :shock:
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Post by simon » Tue Dec 06, 2005 8:57 pm

Try the bed-in procedure for the brakes too.
It's something along the lines of 2 hard brakes to walking pace from 60mph followed by another 2/3 from 80-90 (not on public roads of course ;)) and on the last one, keep your foot hard on the pedal for 2 mins whilst stationary. I found that helped with mine when they felt a bit soft.

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Stephen
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Post by Stephen » Sun Dec 11, 2005 12:32 am

The issue with brake fluid is not the colour but the fact that it is hydroscopic. This means that it attracts water just like the wee packets you get with electrical and optical equipment.
Once the fluid has water in it the fluid can then be compressed. Water is softer than brake fluid. If this happens you need to change it. Boiling the fluid also increases the chance of water vapour getting into the fluid as the water has the opportunity to replace the air introduced during the boiling.

If you want the best fluid you get synthetic (silicon) see http://www.automec.co.uk/frame_set.html for some info

The reccomendation to change your brake fluid according to specified service intervals is because it is not easy to ascertain the level of water molocules in the fluid hence change regularly to be on the safe side.

From reading the posts thus far i would reccomend that you check to see if you have
A contaminated pads (grease or oil on them)
B a siezed pot in one or more calipers. this would mean that the pads are only pushing against one face of the disk. Are the disks clean on both faces and over the whole area?

Does the brake pedal bottom out?

If it does then it may be excessive wear in the pads a leak or fluid.

If it doesnt then it points to a lack of effectiveness at the coal face ie wheel end.

Will any wheels lock up??

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Rich H
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Post by Rich H » Sun Dec 11, 2005 9:29 pm

Stephen,
Pads are not far off new, plenty of wear left
Pedal does not bottom out
Pretty sure disks are shiney both sides (Will check in the light tomorrow)
I'm pretty sure it will be a combination of water in the fluid and possibly air in the system. No wheels will lock at all but I'll try again tomorrow.

Cheers

Rich
1994 Lotus Esprit S4 - Work in progress
1980 Porsche 924 Turbo - Funky Interior Spec
2004 Smart Roadster Coupe - Hers

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