Honda started!!

Uldis · Post by **Uldis** » Tue Jan 16, 2007 10:17 am

Seems that I missed a good row with that waste of space Scruffman. But then I don't do Sellc*ck, you should know better

Why oh why do other people want to feed him and maintain him alive? Don't know, one of those mysteries.

Anyway, well done Craig!

But I'm confused, wasn't this going to be the development of a simple DIY kit that was going to be sold by/with Blink?
And isn't Eliseparts already selling a kit by Blink?

Maybe I got it all wrong...

Post by **Shug** » Tue Jan 16, 2007 10:35 am

Uldis wrote:
Maybe I got it all wrong...

Yip, pretty much all of it....

tut · Post by **tut** » Tue Jan 16, 2007 11:28 am

Uldis

When Craig decided to fit a Honda he used my car as a template to copy the parts from. This co-incided with BLiNK deciding to stop doing conversions. I then got together with Rich to see if he would be interested in putting together just a kit for commercial sale, at a price well below the only one available at the moment from Evo-GT at £4.5K. BLiNK were the first UK company to carry out the Honda conversion, and basically designed the kit. We also got Jim on board to design two manifold and exhaust systems, one N/A and one S/C.

This was only a couple of weeks from going ahead, when Geary and Scuffham went into partnership with his Link-Up kit, Geary taking on the distributorship, and the existing conversion garages, less Sinclairs and Phoenix, but plus Jude, taking on the installations. Rich therefore had to sign a contract agreement, so the plan stopped there.

Both Geary and Rich have been very helpful with Craig, but only on the understanding that his conversion is a one off for himself, and not duplicated.

Good news for me is that I will also continue to get support and parts as needed from Rich.

tut

you can see the full details at Gearys new site, http://www.hondaelise.com

GregR · Post by **GregR** » Tue Jan 16, 2007 11:39 am

what's the cost to date Craig?

Gareth · Post by **Gareth** » Tue Jan 16, 2007 11:40 am

I think what Craig has done is fantastic.
I have problems changing the brake pads never mind engines!

Post by **Shug** » Tue Jan 16, 2007 11:58 am

Abso-frigging-lutely!

The hassle I experienced just swapping engines with the same mountings (Standard K for VVC) but different wiring looms, would just be the tip of the iceberg compared to creating all of the mounting hardware & wiring loom.

Bloody well done Craig - hope to see it out on the road soon

tut · Post by **tut** » Tue Jan 16, 2007 12:25 pm

Craig has kept a detailed price list, so will post that when the final parts are in.

It will turn out more expensive than we first thought, but there is nothing you can really do about custom driveshafts/CV's, and although it is possible to do the loom/electronics/splicings etc, it would be one hell of a job, hence Craig getting the plug in assembly from Evo_GT. Those two alone add upto over £1K.

Bottom line is that unless you have the facilities and engineering/electrical/hands on knowledge that Craig has, it would just not be feasible. If parts were not available or could not be manufactured locally, he would adapt them himself, drilling, sleeving, tapping, tubing, etc and he had access to all the parts and experience of Wallace Caravans. Plus his fault tracing and Electrical degree are just what is needed for a project like this.

Certainly something that he can be proud of, not sure if there is another individual owner out there that has done a S/C Honda conversion from scratch.

tut

ps Gearys price for an S1 S/C Honda conversion is £13,477, but on top of that would be £500 for the Hondata K-Pro ECU, and £400 for the exhaust. Craigs total will work out less than half that.

Uldis · Post by **Uldis** » Tue Jan 16, 2007 12:58 pm

tut wrote:Uldis

When Craig decided to fit a Honda he used my car as a template to copy the parts from. This co-incided with BLiNK deciding to stop doing conversions. I then got together with Rich to see if he would be interested in putting together just a kit for commercial sale, at a price well below the only one available at the moment from Evo-GT at £4.5K. BLiNK were the first UK company to carry out the Honda conversion, and basically designed the kit. We also got Jim on board to design two manifold and exhaust systems, one N/A and one S/C.

This was only a couple of weeks from going ahead, when Geary and Scuffham went into partnership with his Link-Up kit, Geary taking on the distributorship, and the existing conversion garages, less Sinclairs and Phoenix, but plus Jude, taking on the installations. Rich therefore had to sign a contract agreement, so the plan stopped there.

Both Geary and Rich have been very helpful with Craig, but only on the understanding that his conversion is a one off for himself, and not duplicated.

Good news for me is that I will also continue to get support and parts as needed from Rich.

tut

you can see the full details at Gearys new site, http://www.hondaelise.com

I see, but why did Rich have to sign an egreement?
As such there is no DIY kit then other than the Evo-GT, he surely had a niche market there?
Also, wasn't Rich not friends with Scruffman anymore precisely because he was selling something as his when it wasn't?
How can he agree on something that is clearly to Scruff's advantage when it was his kit?

He could still continue with the idea (unless he got paid big time to stop the efforts)

jamie · Post by **jamie** » Tue Jan 16, 2007 1:15 pm

But Blink is now on the Link up web site as being a fitter of their kit I am guessing that a comercial desicion was made that fitting the Link up kit would be better than DIY kits which has to have a more limited market?

tut · Post by **tut** » Tue Jan 16, 2007 1:36 pm

He could not be an installer of what is now Scuffhams kit, unless he signed the disclaimer contract that bound him into the Link-Up kit conversion, which has to be done as a complete turn key conversion, and can not be sold separately, or any parts of it supplied separately, to any one other than existing and future customers.

Although I do not know the complete history, I believe that the UK conversion that turned into BLiNK, was really a bunch of guys sitting in the pub, and putting the idea together. I think Sun in the USA were already doing a conversion at that time, and maybe Joe Mcarthy beat them to it.

So the originals were Rich, Jonny, Scuffers, and I thing Geary was also there. Scuffers did most of the development work on the conversion, but there was then a break up, he wanted to carry on with the work and reckonened it was not ready, BLiNK wanted to get started and recoup some money. However this is hearsay, not something I can confirm.

BLiNK then went ahead with the conversions, and Scuffers continued development on his own, and became Maidstones supplier. However he has run into production/supply problems, so cars were getting stacked up, which is where Geary came in. Due to his size now, and having his own engineering workshop, storage, banking, and world wide courier, he is ordering in quantities of 40 at a time, so can ship out next day to his installers. He provides the complete kit with warranty, so does not have to contend with the installation as he did with the Duratec, and the installers have his reputaion behind them with no problem of supply, and can give a years warranty on the work that they carry out. Any component failures/replacements are covered by Geary.

Of course what used to be a small group of us Mugeners three years ago, has now developed into a large community, and will get bigger. Plus we will have to be using our mirrors more on track with the increase in S/C versions.

tut

Post by **campbell** » Tue Jan 16, 2007 2:18 pm

Quite a story. Almost like the birth of the original S1! Shute, Minter, Rackham and Thompson would be proud.

Although Tony Shute might complain about weight...

[please don't start a power to weight debate for the VTEC, I know full well that all in all it's a cracking conversion!]

Then again...Skoda 1.8T engine anyone...Robin really got me thinking a couple of months back. Pity the 2.0tdi engine is still a bit on the heavy side, that would be quite something in an Elise, you could do 0-60 in about 4th gear (and at 60mpg) !!!

Uldis · Post by **Uldis** » Tue Jan 16, 2007 2:22 pm

Soon the ones with K engines are going to be a rarity... the hardcore ones

jamie · Post by **jamie** » Tue Jan 16, 2007 4:00 pm

I remember reading that Geary covers warranty on parts but installer covers the engine etc

jamie · Post by **jamie** » Tue Jan 16, 2007 4:23 pm

On a related matter Link-up kit uses a Hondata chip in the standard ECU what are the benifits of going to the Pro?

r10crw · Post by **r10crw** » Tue Jan 16, 2007 6:27 pm

Jamie the k100 which you mentioned has to be reflashed by hondata (ie send the ecu away) so if you want to later modify your manifolds or even head work you wont be able to remap it at your local rolling road. The K pro allows it to be mapped by pretty much anyone.
As for cost Im afraid its getting close to 7K. Thing is the engine cost me close to 5 grand so the conversion costs are not too bad. Also I put in an uprated fuel pump which would not be needed in a standard type r engine. Ive got lots of photos and info on the conversion but there really is too much to post it all. Ive recorded all measurments etc and also made duplicates of each part of the kit in case I have failures. Cheers Craig.