)If I damage the exige, then we swap; he get's my BMW, and if he damages the BMW.... eh..... he buys it for 50 quid!
Trackdays & Damage Liability
Ed & I had a good arrangement; (He did not know about it though )
If I damage the exige, then we swap; he get's my BMW, and if he damages the BMW.... eh..... he buys it for 50 quid!
)If I damage the exige, then we swap; he get's my BMW, and if he damages the BMW.... eh..... he buys it for 50 quid!
Last edited by Dominic on Wed Jan 24, 2007 1:40 pm, edited 1 time in total.
mac wrote:
It's a condition of undertaking trackdays - you are liable for any damage that occurs to your car, not matter how that damage occurs.
Mac
exactly, well put Mac. You should always consider it like this, then if anyone who is generous like Simon (but i doubt he actually would be if push came to shove on a 20K write off) offers to pay it is a bonus.
I think that most people attending track days nowadays are aware that they are there entirely at their own risk, and that any damage to their car, however it happened will be paid for out of their own, or insurance companies pocket.
It may be easy at this stage in a nice warm office to say that if you caused an accident, that you would fork out and pay for it. However the reality of any of us causing an accident on track which writes off someone elses new GT3 for instance and volunteering to pay for it , will be well out of reach of most of us!!!
Everyone going on track should be aware of the dangers, and most importantly of all, be able to afford to repair their own car of any damage including write off. If we start thinking that we have to be prepared to repair the most expensive car on track if we cause the accident, then I dont think that any of us could afford to take that risk!!!
I do agree though that if you borrow someone elses car and any damage is caused to it whilst it is your care then it is a case of "you bend it you mend it" Thats why I would never borrow a GT3!!!!
Probably if we all started down the "what if" route, none of us would dare to go on track again!!!
It may be easy at this stage in a nice warm office to say that if you caused an accident, that you would fork out and pay for it. However the reality of any of us causing an accident on track which writes off someone elses new GT3 for instance and volunteering to pay for it , will be well out of reach of most of us!!!
Everyone going on track should be aware of the dangers, and most importantly of all, be able to afford to repair their own car of any damage including write off. If we start thinking that we have to be prepared to repair the most expensive car on track if we cause the accident, then I dont think that any of us could afford to take that risk!!!
I do agree though that if you borrow someone elses car and any damage is caused to it whilst it is your care then it is a case of "you bend it you mend it" Thats why I would never borrow a GT3!!!!
Probably if we all started down the "what if" route, none of us would dare to go on track again!!!
Paul G
The elder, occasionally more sensible member of "Team Still Game"
The elder, occasionally more sensible member of "Team Still Game"
If I drive someone else's car then I fully accept responsibility to pay for it if I prang it.
However, I'm with McKean, Robin and Mac on the issue of running into someone else on track if you're in your own car. The reason I've not been on track yet is because I'm waiting until I can afford the insurance. I simply will not go on track without insurance and it's for this reason alone: I can be as careful as possible but someone could still run into the back of me.
Even if they have track insurance, it only covers their own car and they are under no legal obligation to pay for the damage to my car. Therefore, I'd like to have insurance to cover this. I wouldn't expect someone to fork out over £20k to replace my car just because they made a mistake. I know I couldn't afford to do that. That's what insurance companies are for and it's why we have insurance for the road. The problem with track insurance is that it only covers your own car, so if you're concerned about someone running into you, get track insurance.
However, I'm with McKean, Robin and Mac on the issue of running into someone else on track if you're in your own car. The reason I've not been on track yet is because I'm waiting until I can afford the insurance. I simply will not go on track without insurance and it's for this reason alone: I can be as careful as possible but someone could still run into the back of me.
Even if they have track insurance, it only covers their own car and they are under no legal obligation to pay for the damage to my car. Therefore, I'd like to have insurance to cover this. I wouldn't expect someone to fork out over £20k to replace my car just because they made a mistake. I know I couldn't afford to do that. That's what insurance companies are for and it's why we have insurance for the road. The problem with track insurance is that it only covers your own car, so if you're concerned about someone running into you, get track insurance.
2009 Mini Cooper, Midnight Black
2008 Elise S, Solar Yellow
2008 Elise S, Solar Yellow
Ideally I would have liked to have got track day cover this year but it was just proving to be to expensive. As long as everyone drives responsibly and leaves a safe gap then its unlikely you are ever going to have a problem.
As mentioned earlier by Ross people sitting right on your tail from Duffus to the chicane used to be one of my major gripes when I had the CTR. If I was to spin they would go steaming into the back of me. As long as people hold back I will soon move over sharpish on the straight. At the same time I try to hold back from slower cars to give them room to pull over when its safe to do so.
Unfortuntely there are too many cocks who think that it makes them a great driver if they can out drag someone on the straight, then cut back in to dawdle round the corners.
The Peter Stringfellow lookalike in the 350Z nearly caused me to plough into the back of him on the main straight when he refused to let me by and slammed on the anchors at the bridge.
The biggest likleyhood of two cars coming together would probably be due to an aggressive manouever caused by frustration at a slower driver.
Although KH is fairly well marshalled at all times I would still like to see more blue flags. It helps both the driver in front as well as the one behind.
As long as no one here is going on track with the attitude "I am going to drive however I damn well please and if I collect you its your hard luck" then I have no problem with the risks.
I did still manage to keep 2 wheels on the black stuff, but after that I decided to call it a day. I think because I felt Ed had a lot of confidence in me I pushed the car as hard as my own. I doubt in future I would push anywhere near that hard in someone elses car. Of course had I caused any damage it would be automatically paid for from my pocket.
As mentioned earlier by Ross people sitting right on your tail from Duffus to the chicane used to be one of my major gripes when I had the CTR. If I was to spin they would go steaming into the back of me. As long as people hold back I will soon move over sharpish on the straight. At the same time I try to hold back from slower cars to give them room to pull over when its safe to do so.
Unfortuntely there are too many cocks who think that it makes them a great driver if they can out drag someone on the straight, then cut back in to dawdle round the corners.
The Peter Stringfellow lookalike in the 350Z nearly caused me to plough into the back of him on the main straight when he refused to let me by and slammed on the anchors at the bridge.
The biggest likleyhood of two cars coming together would probably be due to an aggressive manouever caused by frustration at a slower driver.
Although KH is fairly well marshalled at all times I would still like to see more blue flags. It helps both the driver in front as well as the one behind.
As long as no one here is going on track with the attitude "I am going to drive however I damn well please and if I collect you its your hard luck" then I have no problem with the risks.
You did say you wanted the tyres killed offed wrote:I do like having a shot of others peoples cars and im quite happy for people to drive mine. Thing is i never drive them to anywhere near their limits (or mine for that matter
I did still manage to keep 2 wheels on the black stuff, but after that I decided to call it a day. I think because I felt Ed had a lot of confidence in me I pushed the car as hard as my own. I doubt in future I would push anywhere near that hard in someone elses car. Of course had I caused any damage it would be automatically paid for from my pocket.
Here's the scenario that simply doesn't wash with me:-
I insure my car at, say, a £100 premium. I have insured my car so that if my car is damaged (however that may be) the insurance pays. If I have insured my car against that risk, at more than the price of the trackday, why should I pay for someone that just 'took the risk'?
We're not talking about incidents on public roads here. Whilst one driver may say it was the other's fault - will there be any objective evidence? Are we going to hold Court ourselves and decide who was at fault?
eg -
In day to day driving, the driver that drives into the back of the other is at fault - failure to keep safe distance. However, what if on track, the person in front has brake fade, and brakes earlier than they did for the previous 5 laps? he is rear-ended at a hairpin. Should he have put his hazards on or something before the corner? Did he have time to?
Lets be honest (principles aside) we're all human, and its easy to be galant about it until you're staring down the barrel of someone else's £20k repair bill.
If you go on track, you take a risk. Its always a gamble when you're betting against other people's ability and a whole host of variables. Lets not pretend we don't know that.
I insure my car at, say, a £100 premium. I have insured my car so that if my car is damaged (however that may be) the insurance pays. If I have insured my car against that risk, at more than the price of the trackday, why should I pay for someone that just 'took the risk'?
We're not talking about incidents on public roads here. Whilst one driver may say it was the other's fault - will there be any objective evidence? Are we going to hold Court ourselves and decide who was at fault?
eg -
In day to day driving, the driver that drives into the back of the other is at fault - failure to keep safe distance. However, what if on track, the person in front has brake fade, and brakes earlier than they did for the previous 5 laps? he is rear-ended at a hairpin. Should he have put his hazards on or something before the corner? Did he have time to?
Lets be honest (principles aside) we're all human, and its easy to be galant about it until you're staring down the barrel of someone else's £20k repair bill.
If you go on track, you take a risk. Its always a gamble when you're betting against other people's ability and a whole host of variables. Lets not pretend we don't know that.
Ferrari 458
Porsche 993 C2
Disco V
Porsche 993 C2
Disco V
Yup - quite simple really. If you can't face the (slim) possibility of having your car written off then get insurance or don't go on track.
I'd certainly do my level best to help out anyone if I caused an accident that took out their car, but that would be through decency and not any implied necessity. I'd not bankrupt myself for it, put it that way.
However, if I was *driving* someone else's car, different story.
That's my view - think it coincides with the majority.
I'd certainly do my level best to help out anyone if I caused an accident that took out their car, but that would be through decency and not any implied necessity. I'd not bankrupt myself for it, put it that way.
However, if I was *driving* someone else's car, different story.
That's my view - think it coincides with the majority.
2010 Honda VFR1200F
1990 Honda VFR400 NC30
2000 Honda VTR1000 SP1
2000 Kawasaki ZX-7R
1990 Honda VFR400 NC30
2000 Honda VTR1000 SP1
2000 Kawasaki ZX-7R
I've also always assumed that I was on track entirely at my own risk - and hence always had insurance. Cost never seemed to be too bad, though for the last 2 years I've had 6 track days covered for free (or at least included in the price!) of my insurance with AON.
This isn't stated clearly in the policy docs and, IIRC, it was only when I phoned them for a quote that I found out, so if you're covered with them then worth checking.
Tim
This isn't stated clearly in the policy docs and, IIRC, it was only when I phoned them for a quote that I found out, so if you're covered with them then worth checking.
Tim
I don't believe that's the contentious issue - it is clear (to me at least) that when driving you pay for the car you are driving, whether or not it is your own. If you've borrowed it, then the person that lent it to you is your friend and you would want to pay for it anyway. Also, if you pranged their car you might just as well have pranged your own and end up paying for it - so same risk to you.Daveb wrote:Just dont go there I think!
Stick to your own car!
Who wants to be paying for someone elses car that you've pranged.
The idea that a 3rd party, nor matter of fault, will pay for damage to your car on a track day is wrong. It's a track day. You signed a disclaimer that you understood this risk. If you don't like it, don't take your car on track.
Say someone is out in a 150K car, driving reasonably, but perhaps over-braking for the corners a bit and you run into the back of them at the hairpin because of brake fade. Clearly it's not his fault, and you could consider it to be your fault ... have you got the money to pay, and if you do, are you happy to stump it up? I think not!
Insure what you cannot afford to lose. Do it, or you will be sorry.
Robin
I is in your loomz nibblin ur wirez
#bemoretut
#bemoretut
I had track cover last year, and will try and get it included in my policy again this year, but when you read the small print a lot of track cover isnt worth much anyway. There is often a huge excess running into several thousands (think mine is 15% of the value of the car), so it would be worth having in the incredibly unlikely event of a complete write off, but not much use in the far more likely scenario that you needed, say, a new front clam and crash structure. I have done track days in the past without cover, probably will at some stage in the future too. Seems a shame not to at least try a track day just because of the insurance issue, but I guess it is all down to your personal attitude to risk. I like to keep my car in mint condition and I would be seriously hacked off if it was badly damaged, but even if I wasn't insured it wouldn't be the end of the world.dezzy wrote: However, I'm with McKean, Robin and Mac on the issue of running into someone else on track if you're in your own car. The reason I've not been on track yet is because I'm waiting until I can afford the insurance. I simply will not go on track without insurance and it's for this reason alone: I can be as careful as possible but someone could still run into the back of me.
Mark
Mark,
When my car was fairly new (sorry Mandy's car) I used to be concerned about the excessive excess.
My way round it was to buy some low value insurance from CCI - I think I got £3k for £40 or so (used it mainly on the longer events as it's a days worth of insurance)
My thinking was is it's minor then claim against CCI if major then the main policy.
Mac
(PS for what it's worth - it I was driving someone elses car then I would stump up or give them mine)
When my car was fairly new (sorry Mandy's car) I used to be concerned about the excessive excess.
My way round it was to buy some low value insurance from CCI - I think I got £3k for £40 or so (used it mainly on the longer events as it's a days worth of insurance)
My thinking was is it's minor then claim against CCI if major then the main policy.
Mac
(PS for what it's worth - it I was driving someone elses car then I would stump up or give them mine)
Agreed it's not the end of the world, but it's my only car mate. If it was a 2nd car, I wouldn't be as bothered about the risk as I am currently.ryallm wrote:I like to keep my car in mint condition and I would be seriously hacked off if it was badly damaged, but even if I wasn't insured it wouldn't be the end of the world.
2009 Mini Cooper, Midnight Black
2008 Elise S, Solar Yellow
2008 Elise S, Solar Yellow
Agreed, I am less bothered about tracking without insurance because if I did stack it, I would be prepared to leave it parked up for weeks or however long it took to repair it as I have access to other vehicles.dezzy wrote:Agreed it's not the end of the world, but it's my only car mate. If it was a 2nd car, I wouldn't be as bothered about the risk as I am currently.ryallm wrote:I like to keep my car in mint condition and I would be seriously hacked off if it was badly damaged, but even if I wasn't insured it wouldn't be the end of the world.
However, in your case dezzy you had better check that even if you do get track insurance, it would have to be pretty good cover that allowed use of a courtesy car - if you did damage your car, it would be off the road for a few weeks being repaired.