Did anyone see that car wars things on BBC1 on Monday night from Manchester! Unbelievable amount of car crime - keep your car keys will hidden chaps.
As for the mobile laws, agree with tut on that one.
Mobile Phones
I think that show was a repeat, from a year or two ago. Following thread on un-marked police cars (and not knowing if it's cops trying to pull you over), it was worrying seeing them in plain cloths in un-marked scoobies.Andy G wrote:Did anyone see that car wars things on BBC1 on Monday night from Manchester! Unbelievable amount of car crime - keep your car keys will hidden chaps.
As for the mobile laws, agree with tut on that one.
Lawrence
The problem with a law is that it has to apply to everybody. Although the majority of us can safely carry out a mobile phone conversation whilst driving, there are many that can not, and this is where the accidents happen.
The police presented the figures the other day on a TV program, ranging from lack of concentration from lorry drivers and ploughing into the back of a car, to just downright stupidity. Many of these resulted in the death of the people in the other cars, or sometimes pedestrians.
However I think this will lead on to a complete ban on the use of mobile phones in vehicles in the near future, but if this is done, how can they then let the use of Nav systems carry on. Very often drivers will be re-routing these whilst driving requiring several key presses and looking at the screen, which is far more dangerous than holding a phone against your ear and looking straight ahead.
As I rarely use a mobile outside a car, never mind in one, it really does not affect me, and thankfully, the ones that would, road useage charging, and satellite speed monitoring, are around ten years in the future, and though I would love to think that I would still be kicking 4mm's ass in an Elise, it is not too likely<BG>
tut
The problem with a law is that it has to apply to everybody. Although the majority of us can safely carry out a mobile phone conversation whilst driving, there are many that can not, and this is where the accidents happen.
The police presented the figures the other day on a TV program, ranging from lack of concentration from lorry drivers and ploughing into the back of a car, to just downright stupidity. Many of these resulted in the death of the people in the other cars, or sometimes pedestrians.
However I think this will lead on to a complete ban on the use of mobile phones in vehicles in the near future, but if this is done, how can they then let the use of Nav systems carry on. Very often drivers will be re-routing these whilst driving requiring several key presses and looking at the screen, which is far more dangerous than holding a phone against your ear and looking straight ahead.
As I rarely use a mobile outside a car, never mind in one, it really does not affect me, and thankfully, the ones that would, road useage charging, and satellite speed monitoring, are around ten years in the future, and though I would love to think that I would still be kicking 4mm's ass in an Elise, it is not too likely<BG>
tut
Surely having a passenger and talking to them can be as distracting as talking on a hands free mobile.
Never mind haveing kids in the back etc.
Do the police use hands free radios in cars?
Never mind haveing kids in the back etc.
Do the police use hands free radios in cars?
Green Subaru Impreza Turbo, a 'classic'.
Silver Jeep Cherokee 2.5 TD, on SORN spec...
Black Disco 3, black van man spec...
Silver Jeep Cherokee 2.5 TD, on SORN spec...
Black Disco 3, black van man spec...
Yet another 'grab a headline law' that takes any form of discretion away from plod. They always had the power to charge you with driving with undue care and attention anyway.
Has anyone had to drive whilst trying to sort out two kids fighting in the back, that is the worst situation IMHO, well maybe not the actual worst
Malcolm
Always hands free!
No hands left after holding the coffee and dicking about with the ipod.
Has anyone had to drive whilst trying to sort out two kids fighting in the back, that is the worst situation IMHO, well maybe not the actual worst
Malcolm
Always hands free!
No hands left after holding the coffee and dicking about with the ipod.
I've had a hands free car kit for years (various cars) driven 1,000s miles whilst on the phone and NEVER had any near misses because I was talking to someone on the phone. In my experience when the road requires more concentration (someone doing something dodgey in font of you for example) then its the conversation that suffers - not the driving. I often stop talking just to divert more brain power to the driving part. People understand that when they are on the phone to you in the car.
Still see wee ladies chattin on the phone right hand holding phone to ear - blissfully unaware they can bee seen. or are driving up the arse of a slow lorry etc etc etc.
What about compulsary driving tests every 5 years - that would be more useful surely?
Still see wee ladies chattin on the phone right hand holding phone to ear - blissfully unaware they can bee seen.
or are driving up the arse of a slow lorry etc etc etc. What about compulsary driving tests every 5 years - that would be more useful surely?
No reason to have such a law, and with so few traffic police completely pointless, however I do have a good laugh at the reasons that some "experts" use to justify the new law, the best one has to be that you are less aware and reactions are slower when using a hand held mobile phone, than you would be if driving drunk, what bollocks, I can't even walk when I'm pissed and talking without a phone whilst sitting in an arm chair is a challenge. 
Giles
Giles
-
Novice Racer
- Posts: 367
- Joined: Mon Aug 07, 2006 2:18 pm
Strange that the law is against holding a phone and not against holding a conversation on the phone.
The key issue for me, having read some of the studies performed and not just listened to the biased views of the police, politicians and the BBC, is that the data demonstrate that it is holding a conversation whilst holding a mobile that is dangerous. Indeed, the current propaganda campaign against holding the mobile quotes this research.
BUT - there was never any comparison in the incidence of RTA in these studies to holding a conversation on hands free or holding a conversation with a passenger. The comparison was simply holding a mobile and talking versus the national GB incidence of RTA.
This is unvelievable. I am currently doing a science degree (PhD) and basic logic is that each experiment should be controlled by comparing with the exact same circumstances minus the key feature, in this case, whether or not the conversation relies on holding a mobile. The correct control against say 100 people doing this would be another 100 age and experience matched individuals driving the same roads in the same circumstances, not holding a phone but having a hands free mobile conversation and measuring the RTA incidence in both groups.
That a law has been passed on flimsy and much misquoted "science" is a national scandal. Until these experiments have been conducted, nobody can comment on the dangers of mobile phone use whilst driving, despite what many of us would assume to be a good idea.
NR
The key issue for me, having read some of the studies performed and not just listened to the biased views of the police, politicians and the BBC, is that the data demonstrate that it is holding a conversation whilst holding a mobile that is dangerous. Indeed, the current propaganda campaign against holding the mobile quotes this research.
BUT - there was never any comparison in the incidence of RTA in these studies to holding a conversation on hands free or holding a conversation with a passenger. The comparison was simply holding a mobile and talking versus the national GB incidence of RTA.
This is unvelievable. I am currently doing a science degree (PhD) and basic logic is that each experiment should be controlled by comparing with the exact same circumstances minus the key feature, in this case, whether or not the conversation relies on holding a mobile. The correct control against say 100 people doing this would be another 100 age and experience matched individuals driving the same roads in the same circumstances, not holding a phone but having a hands free mobile conversation and measuring the RTA incidence in both groups.
That a law has been passed on flimsy and much misquoted "science" is a national scandal. Until these experiments have been conducted, nobody can comment on the dangers of mobile phone use whilst driving, despite what many of us would assume to be a good idea.
NR
Ipsa scientia potestas est
S2 Elise
S2 Elise
Well said - the crap that the government puts out assumes we are all morons that cant tell the difference between fact and fiction.Novice Racer wrote: each experiment should be controlled by comparing with the exact same circumstances minus the key feature
You should read the bollocks thats on the West Lothian Council Website relating to speed cameras.
"everyone is in favour of cameras
cameras will solve hunger in Africa
without cameras life as we know it wouldnt exist."
Or something like that.
They think if they write it - people will believe it.
I studied probability and statistics at Uni and some of the statistics are ridiculous!
All very true, IMHO. I think a re-test for licence would be a great idea. If you pass with flying colours, then ok for 10 yrs, average 5 years, and only just pass; then resit after 1 or 2 years. That would solve so many driving standard issues (including the muppets who drive at 40mph everywhere, open road / villages etc).james wrote:I've had a hands free car kit for years (various cars) driven 1,000s miles whilst on the phone and NEVER had any near misses because I was talking to someone on the phone. In my experience when the road requires more concentration (someone doing something dodgey in font of you for example) then its the conversation that suffers - not the driving. I often stop talking just to divert more brain power to the driving part. People understand that when they are on the phone to you in the car.
Still see wee ladies chattin on the phone right hand holding phone to ear - blissfully unaware they can bee seen.
What about compulsary driving tests every 5 years - that would be more useful surely?
I saw a program where they did test reactions of drivers talking on the phone (hands free) and then driving normally. This did show that concentration levels were affected, so there could have been a case for banning all phone use.
However I suppose that you can reasonably argue that having using a hand held phone will certainly affect control of a vehicle as one hand that would normally be used as part of the control is busy soley doing something else for a quite a while. Yes there are many other things where a hand might have to do other tasks but in most cases these should be quite quick and easy things if car manufacturers have got the ergonomics of their cars right.
Using stuff like phones, iPods, GPSs and PDAs not only poses a problem in fiddling with the controls but also in focusing eyes on the screens. Luckily I am half blind so need to wear glasses for driving and with them on I can't read most of the screens anyway so that stops me using them.
I certainly admit to using these things in the past and suddenly realising that I had drifted of my course.
Of all the things that other car drivers can do, in my own experience I have found that the biggest danger has been from people using hand held phones. 2 Very near misses (inches) while riding my motorbike with Skye in Edinburgh. Another near miss in my car in Edinburgh. A rear end shunt in Glasgow. My cousin killed crossing at traffic lights be a van driver on a phone and a friend of my brothers was killed by a lorry driver ploughing into the back of her car on the motorway while distracted using his phone. In fact this incident was covered in a lengthy Police program a while ago. It was amazing the forensics the Police used to study the crash. They could even tell whether a car's brake lights were on at the time. The lorry's were not so they worked out that he had hit the stationary car at 60mph The car was unrecognisable.
I know that we can end up feeling there are laws for everything but this is one law that I feel is well overdue. It may not be perfect but it will save lives.
My 4p's worth
Why do some people that have conbversation with their passengers keep looking around at them? Can they not just hold a conversation while looking ahead.
However I suppose that you can reasonably argue that having using a hand held phone will certainly affect control of a vehicle as one hand that would normally be used as part of the control is busy soley doing something else for a quite a while. Yes there are many other things where a hand might have to do other tasks but in most cases these should be quite quick and easy things if car manufacturers have got the ergonomics of their cars right.
Using stuff like phones, iPods, GPSs and PDAs not only poses a problem in fiddling with the controls but also in focusing eyes on the screens. Luckily I am half blind so need to wear glasses for driving and with them on I can't read most of the screens anyway so that stops me using them.
I certainly admit to using these things in the past and suddenly realising that I had drifted of my course.
Of all the things that other car drivers can do, in my own experience I have found that the biggest danger has been from people using hand held phones. 2 Very near misses (inches) while riding my motorbike with Skye in Edinburgh. Another near miss in my car in Edinburgh. A rear end shunt in Glasgow. My cousin killed crossing at traffic lights be a van driver on a phone and a friend of my brothers was killed by a lorry driver ploughing into the back of her car on the motorway while distracted using his phone. In fact this incident was covered in a lengthy Police program a while ago. It was amazing the forensics the Police used to study the crash. They could even tell whether a car's brake lights were on at the time. The lorry's were not so they worked out that he had hit the stationary car at 60mph
The car was unrecognisable.I know that we can end up feeling there are laws for everything but this is one law that I feel is well overdue. It may not be perfect but it will save lives.
My 4p's worth
Why do some people that have conbversation with their passengers keep looking around at them? Can they not just hold a conversation while looking ahead.
Excuse me, but wasn't there already a law about the use of mobile phones whilst driving a car. It carried a £30 fine. The police were hot on detection and prosecution for oh, at least a week after it was introduced.
Then it must have become too expensive to have all those patrol cars out and about, so they cut back. The number of accidents involving the use of a mobile phone stays around the same, because the police aren't there to police, and we the public continue to try and get away with what we can when we can. The cheapest way therefor, is to introduce bigger penelties as a deterent.
Somehow I don't think it will make much difference. it will put off some, the casual user, but for the people that spend most time behind the wheel, the car/lorry is their office. For the young and inexperienced, they are invinsible, and have a texting addiction to feed.
Then it must have become too expensive to have all those patrol cars out and about, so they cut back. The number of accidents involving the use of a mobile phone stays around the same, because the police aren't there to police, and we the public continue to try and get away with what we can when we can. The cheapest way therefor, is to introduce bigger penelties as a deterent.
Somehow I don't think it will make much difference. it will put off some, the casual user, but for the people that spend most time behind the wheel, the car/lorry is their office. For the young and inexperienced, they are invinsible, and have a texting addiction to feed.
No, No! not Bloke. It's pronounced Black, as in Plaque